full head translation

honda346
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full head translation

Post by honda346 » Tue Feb 18, 2003 6:30 pm

I'm wondering if FB will (or if it's even possible with this new 2.0 driver and enhanced support) be able to have actual head translation left/right and up/down in addition to the mouse look. If you could move left in the cockpit while looking back and up it would really rock! I know we can't get the "head tilt" with this camera probably but any thoughts as to the possibilities for the other 4 degrees of freedom?

Georgio
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Re: full head translation

Post by Georgio » Tue Feb 18, 2003 7:20 pm

I think you'll find that's more a game issue than TrackIR one. If it were possible to hit a key to toggle 'move' ingame, then hit it to enable TIR then it would probably work.

Charlie251
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Re: full head translation

Post by Charlie251 » Wed Feb 19, 2003 4:11 am

Yup, game issue. Weve been talking about this for a while. The main problem now is that games are not using a full 3D cockpit. Alot of it is just a .bmp layered with 3D items.

Once game technology starts coming out with 3D cockpits, they you will be able to do that. This will let you peak behind your seat by emulating a lean in the cockpit. You could look around struts and cockpit dash boards, ect.

Once they make the cockpit full 3D, you will see this happen.

HarryM
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Re: full head translation

Post by HarryM » Wed Feb 19, 2003 4:13 am

The cockpits are "optimized" and hidden surfaces removed. So if you move too far to the left, you will see holes, so it's not like flipping a switch.

honda346
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Re: full head translation

Post by honda346 » Wed Feb 19, 2003 6:04 am

I understand... The IL2 cockpits are kind of like a quidktime VR movie (like how you look around inside some of the car interiors on a Nissan site). For some reason I thought the cockpits in IL2 were 3d rendered not bitmaps. The funny thing is I'm pretty sure the cockpits in Aces High ARE bitmaps and you can move your head position in those. I'm sure a similar trick is being done with the bitmaps to allow that but at least it seems possible.

On the trackIR side of the shop can it detect the "head tilt" or is that not possible with the camera? Seems it can do everything else though.

HarryM
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Re: full head translation

Post by HarryM » Wed Feb 19, 2003 6:33 am

They are all 3D/rendered. Sometimes they will stick an elaborate bitmap onto a flat surface to save on polygons, like with instrument bezels for example.

Things like the gunsite are an obvious example. It is essentially a box. Normally you never see the right side of that box in Il-2. It is most likely not even there.

It is like an elaborate facade or stage prop. It looks very real and accurate in 3 dimensions when standing in front of it, but if you looked at it from the side it would be obvious it is a prop, the parts you don't see from the front aren't there to save the rendering engine.

Jim
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Re: full head translation

Post by Jim » Wed Feb 19, 2003 4:45 pm

Hello:

You guys are touching on a very cool topic, and a favorite of mine. The current trackIR unit is capable of tracking multiple points at one time and can therefore infer the full 6DOF position of your head. The problem is in the games, as stated correctly above. We hope that developes will see how great full 6DOF would make their games, while using the trackIR. First thing is first, trackIR Enhanced support in all mouse look flight sims!

Of course we gotta save something for the future, right?

Charlie251
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Re: full head translation

Post by Charlie251 » Wed Feb 19, 2003 5:37 pm

I dont follow.....

What I was saying... for instance, the FW-190. Look straight up and you can see that huge strut in the way. That is not rendered. It is a picture .bmp file that just sticks it there.

It it was rendered, the capability of "looking around it" could be acheived.

Halstead York
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Re: full head translation

Post by Halstead York » Wed Feb 19, 2003 5:44 pm

quote:Originally posted by Charlie251:
I dont follow.....

What I was saying... for instance, the FW-190. Look straight up and you can see that huge strut in the way. That is not rendered. It is a picture .bmp file that just sticks it there.

It it was rendered, the capability of "looking around it" could be acheived.In other words, the IL-2 cockpits are like a film set- move just a few degrees from center, and you'll see holes and seams and all sorts of issues. Oleg would have to completely re-think the way he does his cockpits for off-center movement to work.

Hope this helps...

Charlie251
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Re: full head translation

Post by Charlie251 » Thu Feb 20, 2003 2:21 am

OK Halstead, understand you there and have seen this myself. OK, now I am on track.

It would be good to have games that support the full 6DOF so that you wouldnt have to use your mouse and TIR to do this. People may like that with FPS so that movement and aiming are seperate, but for flight sims, hands on HOTAS and TIR does all view movements.

My idea was a hotkey to transition from rotation to lateral adjustments. Meaning you look up, hit the hotkey, and then look sideways. This translates in looking up and then leaning left or right to see around things.

A good example is the strafe key in a FPS. You turn your head, your whole body turns. Hold the strafe, you go sideways.

Jim, I will qoute Jim Morrison on your idea of saving things for the future... "We want the world and we want it now!" Understand though. Got to get the game developers on track first, then we can really get into the goodies.

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