BOB and FS2002 are already released with full support.
FB and LOMAC will have full support as well as said by Oleg and NP.
CFS team has been ignoring NP for months. Dont buy any Microsoft game until they pull their head out of their butt and listen to their user base.
Ive heard rumor that a few race car games are now developing support for TIR as well.
The list is growing, it isnt going to happen over night. But in 6 months or so, you will see everyone doing it and keymapping will be a dead issue. So why waste time on it now?
Ive had it!!
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Charlie251
- Posts: 955
- Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 5:00 am
- Location: Melbourne, Florida
Re: Ive had it!!
Geez Blitzkreig welcom to the track IR forum nice to meet you , you sure do seem to me to be a very bitter and twisted person just because keymapping was dropped.
If you had been following the forums here you would have seen posts from Jim/Halstead that keymapping was bugged and was going to be dropped from future version of the TIR softwear if they could not get it working properly, on most peoples TIR installs it never worked and was as buggy as hell so they dropped it, me I couldnt care less as I have a hat that I can use for keymapping if a sim needs those views.
Do you really think TIR has any obligation to support older sims that dont use options for viewing that the TIR unit is optermized for mouse look and its new Absolute mode that can be built into sims, me I would say NO most sims developers dont add viewing function options at there own peril look at CFS3 it doesnt even have a option to look up45 on the keypad by holding down the KP5 key as a modifyer did you buy it , man stuff like that has been in games for over 10 years if sims developers ignore simple stuff like the KP5 then there sims dont deserve to be brought ,but blameing TIR because you couldnt use it in a game like CFS3 (if you brought it) because it doesnt have option to bind keys to its looking feature well its hardley there fault is it.
As for NP wanting all the game companies to do all the work for them well I think you are just plain WRONG there NP supply a SDK for developers to use to implement TIR support into there games and even supply FREE units so these game developers can get proper support by testing with a TIR unit in there games, what would have happened if game developers ignored units like the Joysticks early on when sims were first being developed, would we all be still flying using keys, I doubt it.
I can tell you now if Oleg hasnt got support for TIR in IL2 FB im not buying it period, same with LOMAC and other sims that are too come out, if you want TIR to work in games like WW2 online (and I do, the day it does is the day I come back too it) then you need to start lobbying the RATS for support and if you have 130 squadies to help you then you have a big voice to do it with, the TIR guys will help them all they can just like they have helped OSRAM with his getting support into BOB.
Anyway im sure you want to go off and rant as much as you can on other forums, but me I belive there will be many people to counter your arguments than there will be to help yours.
[ February 19, 2003, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: Hotdognz ]
If you had been following the forums here you would have seen posts from Jim/Halstead that keymapping was bugged and was going to be dropped from future version of the TIR softwear if they could not get it working properly, on most peoples TIR installs it never worked and was as buggy as hell so they dropped it, me I couldnt care less as I have a hat that I can use for keymapping if a sim needs those views.
Do you really think TIR has any obligation to support older sims that dont use options for viewing that the TIR unit is optermized for mouse look and its new Absolute mode that can be built into sims, me I would say NO most sims developers dont add viewing function options at there own peril look at CFS3 it doesnt even have a option to look up45 on the keypad by holding down the KP5 key as a modifyer did you buy it , man stuff like that has been in games for over 10 years if sims developers ignore simple stuff like the KP5 then there sims dont deserve to be brought ,but blameing TIR because you couldnt use it in a game like CFS3 (if you brought it) because it doesnt have option to bind keys to its looking feature well its hardley there fault is it.
As for NP wanting all the game companies to do all the work for them well I think you are just plain WRONG there NP supply a SDK for developers to use to implement TIR support into there games and even supply FREE units so these game developers can get proper support by testing with a TIR unit in there games, what would have happened if game developers ignored units like the Joysticks early on when sims were first being developed, would we all be still flying using keys, I doubt it.
I can tell you now if Oleg hasnt got support for TIR in IL2 FB im not buying it period, same with LOMAC and other sims that are too come out, if you want TIR to work in games like WW2 online (and I do, the day it does is the day I come back too it) then you need to start lobbying the RATS for support and if you have 130 squadies to help you then you have a big voice to do it with, the TIR guys will help them all they can just like they have helped OSRAM with his getting support into BOB.
Anyway im sure you want to go off and rant as much as you can on other forums, but me I belive there will be many people to counter your arguments than there will be to help yours.
[ February 19, 2003, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: Hotdognz ]
Re: Ive had it!!
I think it's a bit childish to go round posting bad reviews just because the game you play does'nt have mouseview. Most games worth their salt have a mouseview already and can be used with the TrackIR and from what Halstead says the list of dedicated TIR support will gorw considerably over the next few months. Have you been this voiciferous to CRS for not having a mouseview in WW2OL?
Siggi> What problems are you having with the Couar software? every release I've had have worked and been very solid.
Siggi> What problems are you having with the Couar software? every release I've had have worked and been very solid.
Re: Ive had it!!
I really don't know which software causes the probs, though I guess it's the Foxy stuff. Whenever I'd try to run in emulation mode, using files I downloaded, stuff wouldn't work as advertised or the whole bloody stick would just pack up and require a restart or PC re-boot. I got sick of it and have run in windows mode ever since. The fact that all my commands are catered for within Il2 itself anyway means I've felt no pain until now. Damn, I want that F7 on my stick, it's kewl.
Re: Ive had it!!
Siggi im off to work now (night shift) but I have a relatively simple IL2 commans set for my Cougar and has some native Track IR stuff on it, email me at Hotdognz@freeuk.com and ill send you the files we can then go about makeing sure they work for you ok, we can even just add stuff in for Track IR and leave all the other buttons to YOUR IL2 settings.
Re: Ive had it!!
Wow a lot to reply to. I wish I would have caught this thread earlier but now I'll have to have a long rant! Here it goes:
Some of you may know I'm a pretty staunch keymapping supporter. While I don't agree with the way Blitzkrieg presented his message, I agree with many of his points. I feel that Naturalpoint could open up the market to WWIIOL, Falcon 4, and other simmers if they supported keymapping. Yes agree that Absolute mode is the way of the future and they have limited resources (and do AMAZING stuff with them), but there are many out there are still using older games because there is no comparable sim out there. Flight Sims are niche markets within niche markets. You have your civilian simmers, your WWII prop simmers, your military jet simmers and you can even break those down into smaller game-specific niches. With the combo of mouse emulation, Absolute mode, and keymapping you could support every sim niche not to mention a genres. I think that Naturalpoint's research shows that the groups that aren't interested in TrackIR are that way because they haven't heard how great TrackIR is in their specific sim. Think back to how much word of mouth made the IL-2 guys want Track IR. The same thing could happen in the other sims that already have user bases, not sims that may have a user base in the future supporting Absolute and end up slightly flopping (hehe, yes, slight jab at Strike Fighters). Why not go for the guys that are already using a program and buy outrageous hardware now that you guys have supported the future with Absolute mode? Unless Jim and the crew have to build the .dll for each sim themselves, I don't see much work being put into Absolute mode by Naturalpoint. Hehe, yes, Jim, I bet I'm wrong and you guys have more going on behind the curtain.
I fly mostly fly Falcon 4 because I'm an F-16 fanatic and my $600 of sim hardware is geared towards simulating F-16 experience. I thought TrackIR in $130 of that would help that experience. But it isn't. If it wasn't for the beta testing I did my Track IR would be collecting dust, which is a shame because it's a great piece of hardware. Testing made me get out my IL-2 CD and test in it and reinstall BOB for the BDG .95 patch. These games are great fun with Track IR so I don't think I wasted my money, but I just wish I could use it in the only game on my hard drive that I play constantly, Falcon.
I want keymapping so bad because I see how great Track IR works in other games and it makes me jealous for my pet sim and mostly, I KNOW it can work. Long before Track IR GX can around there was a program called "Use Your Head" that was a webcam headtracking program. While it's tracking was highly unreliable, but if you got it to track it's keymapping would allow IL-2/TrackIR like panning in the 3D cockpit and smooth view switching in Falcon 4.
I also understand Blitzkrieg's frustration at spending $130 and he can't use it in anything he wants. I think WWIIOL users can have some hope since they always seem to adding new patches. Blitzkrieg, I highly recommend you let the guys at Cornered Rat know all of your squad want's to use TrackIR and the next patch should support the Absolute mode. These guys aren't lying when they say it's the way of the future! But by the same token guys that is the future, not now, it's a waste of his money if it's collecting dust.
As for me and Track IR in Falcon 4, I know Halstead has contacted G2I for support in Falcon: OIR. That's great and I hope if it ever comes out they will support it. But that's at least 6 months down the road, if ever. With the problems G2I has been having, I doubt I'll ever get to buy a copy. The user mod community can't support Absolute mode because we can no longer use source code. I've had a little time to play with GX 1.40 in Win2000 where keymapping does work. I haven't had enough time to sort out all of the configuration quirks I have to get good view control in Falcon but I'm pretty determined to make it happen somehow. I wish I was a programmer and Naturalpoint would let me work with the keymapping code so I could get it up to snuff. I'd do it for free (or maybe just for one of the new accessories they're coming out with). I'm also afraid that the keymapping bug may get in the way of Charlie's and mine wish list feature of hotkey pass through into the game, instead of the programmed hotkey being unusable in games now. BUT, let me make it clear, I have NO founding for this fear, it's just a gut feeling I have. Jim, Halstead, Birch, et. al., PLEASE feel free to trounce me on that fear!
HEHE, as for the Cougar, I LOVE IT! I've owned 5 Saitek X36s (internally same stick as the X45) and they all broke on me!
Charlie, your going to have to explain to me your math on how the Cougar only has 1/4 the assignments. The dogfight switch and pinkie button can work as a modifier just like the X36/X45, so that evens out. You have 2 extra 8 way hats and 2 extra buttons that the X45 doesn't. I won't even count the 36 logical flags you can program as virtual buttons on any axis or buttons
Foxy, IMHO, is fairly easy to use if you use the Composer and do a little RTFM or use the help, and you can do incredible things with the Cougar's programming, i.e.. I have realistic throttle detents that enable the afterburner and shut off the engine and still allow a restart in Falcon 4. And YES, it uses keyboard buttons Cess-Lorak, not just DX buttons!
Alright guys, if I'm wrong PLEASE tear this reasoning down so I can be happy without keymapping
Some of you may know I'm a pretty staunch keymapping supporter. While I don't agree with the way Blitzkrieg presented his message, I agree with many of his points. I feel that Naturalpoint could open up the market to WWIIOL, Falcon 4, and other simmers if they supported keymapping. Yes agree that Absolute mode is the way of the future and they have limited resources (and do AMAZING stuff with them), but there are many out there are still using older games because there is no comparable sim out there. Flight Sims are niche markets within niche markets. You have your civilian simmers, your WWII prop simmers, your military jet simmers and you can even break those down into smaller game-specific niches. With the combo of mouse emulation, Absolute mode, and keymapping you could support every sim niche not to mention a genres. I think that Naturalpoint's research shows that the groups that aren't interested in TrackIR are that way because they haven't heard how great TrackIR is in their specific sim. Think back to how much word of mouth made the IL-2 guys want Track IR. The same thing could happen in the other sims that already have user bases, not sims that may have a user base in the future supporting Absolute and end up slightly flopping (hehe, yes, slight jab at Strike Fighters). Why not go for the guys that are already using a program and buy outrageous hardware now that you guys have supported the future with Absolute mode? Unless Jim and the crew have to build the .dll for each sim themselves, I don't see much work being put into Absolute mode by Naturalpoint. Hehe, yes, Jim, I bet I'm wrong and you guys have more going on behind the curtain.
I fly mostly fly Falcon 4 because I'm an F-16 fanatic and my $600 of sim hardware is geared towards simulating F-16 experience. I thought TrackIR in $130 of that would help that experience. But it isn't. If it wasn't for the beta testing I did my Track IR would be collecting dust, which is a shame because it's a great piece of hardware. Testing made me get out my IL-2 CD and test in it and reinstall BOB for the BDG .95 patch. These games are great fun with Track IR so I don't think I wasted my money, but I just wish I could use it in the only game on my hard drive that I play constantly, Falcon.
I want keymapping so bad because I see how great Track IR works in other games and it makes me jealous for my pet sim and mostly, I KNOW it can work. Long before Track IR GX can around there was a program called "Use Your Head" that was a webcam headtracking program. While it's tracking was highly unreliable, but if you got it to track it's keymapping would allow IL-2/TrackIR like panning in the 3D cockpit and smooth view switching in Falcon 4.
I also understand Blitzkrieg's frustration at spending $130 and he can't use it in anything he wants. I think WWIIOL users can have some hope since they always seem to adding new patches. Blitzkrieg, I highly recommend you let the guys at Cornered Rat know all of your squad want's to use TrackIR and the next patch should support the Absolute mode. These guys aren't lying when they say it's the way of the future! But by the same token guys that is the future, not now, it's a waste of his money if it's collecting dust.
As for me and Track IR in Falcon 4, I know Halstead has contacted G2I for support in Falcon: OIR. That's great and I hope if it ever comes out they will support it. But that's at least 6 months down the road, if ever. With the problems G2I has been having, I doubt I'll ever get to buy a copy. The user mod community can't support Absolute mode because we can no longer use source code. I've had a little time to play with GX 1.40 in Win2000 where keymapping does work. I haven't had enough time to sort out all of the configuration quirks I have to get good view control in Falcon but I'm pretty determined to make it happen somehow. I wish I was a programmer and Naturalpoint would let me work with the keymapping code so I could get it up to snuff. I'd do it for free (or maybe just for one of the new accessories they're coming out with). I'm also afraid that the keymapping bug may get in the way of Charlie's and mine wish list feature of hotkey pass through into the game, instead of the programmed hotkey being unusable in games now. BUT, let me make it clear, I have NO founding for this fear, it's just a gut feeling I have. Jim, Halstead, Birch, et. al., PLEASE feel free to trounce me on that fear!
HEHE, as for the Cougar, I LOVE IT! I've owned 5 Saitek X36s (internally same stick as the X45) and they all broke on me!
Charlie, your going to have to explain to me your math on how the Cougar only has 1/4 the assignments. The dogfight switch and pinkie button can work as a modifier just like the X36/X45, so that evens out. You have 2 extra 8 way hats and 2 extra buttons that the X45 doesn't. I won't even count the 36 logical flags you can program as virtual buttons on any axis or buttons
Foxy, IMHO, is fairly easy to use if you use the Composer and do a little RTFM or use the help, and you can do incredible things with the Cougar's programming, i.e.. I have realistic throttle detents that enable the afterburner and shut off the engine and still allow a restart in Falcon 4. And YES, it uses keyboard buttons Cess-Lorak, not just DX buttons!
Alright guys, if I'm wrong PLEASE tear this reasoning down so I can be happy without keymapping
Re: Ive had it!!
Siggi have you downloaded the latest drivers and flash upgraded the firmware in the stick? I also have an IL-2 profile I could mail you if you so wish
Re: Ive had it!!
Yes, I flashed the stick just a few weeks ago with v2.something.
I'm full-real, so I doubt if your profiles will work for me, plus I see no reason to think the old problems will have gone away. Windows (DirectX) mode is rock solid and I much prefer to map my stick from within a game rather than use an extra interface.
But your kind offers are very much appreciated guys; you are gentlemen. Thankyou.
I'm full-real, so I doubt if your profiles will work for me, plus I see no reason to think the old problems will have gone away. Windows (DirectX) mode is rock solid and I much prefer to map my stick from within a game rather than use an extra interface.
But your kind offers are very much appreciated guys; you are gentlemen. Thankyou.
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BlitzKrieg
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2002 5:00 am
- Location: Indy
Re: Ive had it!!
First off the Track IR is not new tech. Its has been on the market for 2 years. For those of you just jumped on ...we were promised a working keymapper since last summer. and they failed to deliever that. Since the days of the old forums I have been told that keymapping was a priority which turns out to be a falsehood. It all comes down to what Game devolpers have time and money for. Yes CRS has patches that enhance the game but they have a set schedule of items that are developed. They have already stated that Mouse look will not be included due to these constrants. My arguement is with being told one thing and then getting another. If you want I can post personal emails from the members at NP stating that new software as well as a new keymapper where being devolped. In closing I had high hopes but they turn out to only a dream of what this device could have been. Oh well I love wasting time and money ...dont you?
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Halstead York
- Posts: 229
- Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 5:00 am
- Location: Portland, Oregon
Re: Ive had it!!
quote:Originally posted by BlitzKrieg:
First off the Track IR is not new tech. Its has been on the market for 2 years. For those of you just jumped on ...we were promised a working keymapper since last summer. and they failed to deliever that. Since the days of the old forums I have been told that keymapping was a priority which turns out to be a falsehood. It all comes down to what Game devolpers have time and money for. Yes CRS has patches that enhance the game but they have a set schedule of items that are developed. They have already stated that Mouse look will not be included due to these constrants. My arguement is with being told one thing and then getting another. If you want I can post personal emails from the members at NP stating that new software as well as a new keymapper where being devolped. In closing I had high hopes but they turn out to only a dream of what this device could have been. Oh well I love wasting time and money ...dont you?Blitz-
Keymapping was a priority for us, and we worked very hard to make it happen. The bottom line is that it was fundamentally kludgy, and didn't even work half the time. We simply couldn't do better, and with our limited development resources, we felt that we needed to focus our attention on the future of sims, not their past. We have been very open about this issue throughout the development cycle- I'm sorry if you feel otherwise.
FYI, there is a 3rd party keymapping utility written by K2US that will soon have full trackIR Enhanced support, so within the next few weeks you'll have that capability within 2.0.
First off the Track IR is not new tech. Its has been on the market for 2 years. For those of you just jumped on ...we were promised a working keymapper since last summer. and they failed to deliever that. Since the days of the old forums I have been told that keymapping was a priority which turns out to be a falsehood. It all comes down to what Game devolpers have time and money for. Yes CRS has patches that enhance the game but they have a set schedule of items that are developed. They have already stated that Mouse look will not be included due to these constrants. My arguement is with being told one thing and then getting another. If you want I can post personal emails from the members at NP stating that new software as well as a new keymapper where being devolped. In closing I had high hopes but they turn out to only a dream of what this device could have been. Oh well I love wasting time and money ...dont you?Blitz-
Keymapping was a priority for us, and we worked very hard to make it happen. The bottom line is that it was fundamentally kludgy, and didn't even work half the time. We simply couldn't do better, and with our limited development resources, we felt that we needed to focus our attention on the future of sims, not their past. We have been very open about this issue throughout the development cycle- I'm sorry if you feel otherwise.
FYI, there is a 3rd party keymapping utility written by K2US that will soon have full trackIR Enhanced support, so within the next few weeks you'll have that capability within 2.0.