This was supposed to be the big step ahead?
a) Where's direct joystick key-mapping? I'm not prepared to use the Foxy software on my Cougar because it's buggy crap. That leaves Window's mode, but with no direct keymapping in the TIR software I'm stuffed.
b) Where's the deadzone?
c) With sliders on max my unit is still now considerably less responsive in the cockpit...my neck is stiff from being almost screwed off trying to see over my shoulder.
This thing is just too much work and I'm about ready to bin it. I'll wait for FB integration but I'm not holding my breath.
Not much impressed.
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609IAP_Recon
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2003 5:00 am
Re: Not much impressed.
1. Not sure on this one...
2. No deadzone until FB is out.
3. I had to adjust my settings again - they aren't the same - I raised the speed up and found out it responds better if further away.
I was a bit overwelmed at first, but I just would pause IL2, toggle out to TRackIr, and adjust settings until it worked. One mistake was not realize the enhanced wasn't for IL2 yet - that was confusing, so, I just set this up similiar to what I had before - So...no changes until FB really.
Make sure autopanning is off - haven't figured that one out yet - seems to mess up my trackir tracking
[ February 19, 2003, 06:48 AM: Message edited by: 609IAP_Recon ]
2. No deadzone until FB is out.
3. I had to adjust my settings again - they aren't the same - I raised the speed up and found out it responds better if further away.
I was a bit overwelmed at first, but I just would pause IL2, toggle out to TRackIr, and adjust settings until it worked. One mistake was not realize the enhanced wasn't for IL2 yet - that was confusing, so, I just set this up similiar to what I had before - So...no changes until FB really.
Make sure autopanning is off - haven't figured that one out yet - seems to mess up my trackir tracking
[ February 19, 2003, 06:48 AM: Message edited by: 609IAP_Recon ]
Re: Not much impressed.
I was expecting the v2.0 software to increase the unit's fidelity sans game integration. It doesn't. In fact I can see little difference in performance between v1.40 and v2.0 other than a different menu interface. The performance is actually a little worse.
Ho hum, I've been told by somebody with the FB beta that the TIR works beautifully with proper integration, so I'm on hold 'till then.
Ho hum, I've been told by somebody with the FB beta that the TIR works beautifully with proper integration, so I'm on hold 'till then.
Re: Not much impressed.
Siggi what do you mean by Direct Joystick Key-Mapping ?? im lost on that one can you explain
Also when you say you wont use your Cougar because its buggy, do you mean the Cougar softwear is or TIR ?? You need to explain here what you are trying to do. I have a Cougar and im using TIR & Cougar in IL2 fine, with a button on my Cougar switching the TIR off or ON and a button switching on or off Precision mode (F7 Toggle on).
Windows mode ?? do you mean Mouse Emulation on the Motion Tab ??
In IL2 you need to remember that TIR is acting like a mouse still and until IL2 FB comes out and Oleg adds the much wanted Absolute mode then TIR can only be set up as good as a mouse for viewing, when we tested this beta the beta team asked Jim/Birch if a dead zone could be added to Mouse Emulation (Relative mode) and it cant at the moment but they are going to really look at some system to be able to do this I belive Jim said, so you will not be able to add any dead zone to IL2 untill we get support from Oleg.
If you end up bining it how much do you want for it as ill buy it off you I want a second one for my next computer, I think however you need to sit back take a breath and try a sim that has Absolute mode built in (BOB & FS2002) you will see what TIR can really do in those games and what it will be like once Oleg releases support for TIR in his games.
If you moveing your head too far you still have some settings wrong some where in either IL2 mouse settings (what are yours) or maybe Windows mouse settings.
My TIR settings for IL2 are at 20 on the X & Y and im hardly moveing my head to get full 1 & 3 oclock views, ill admit that the settings dont seem to go as high as they used too though.
Also when you say you wont use your Cougar because its buggy, do you mean the Cougar softwear is or TIR ?? You need to explain here what you are trying to do. I have a Cougar and im using TIR & Cougar in IL2 fine, with a button on my Cougar switching the TIR off or ON and a button switching on or off Precision mode (F7 Toggle on).
Windows mode ?? do you mean Mouse Emulation on the Motion Tab ??
In IL2 you need to remember that TIR is acting like a mouse still and until IL2 FB comes out and Oleg adds the much wanted Absolute mode then TIR can only be set up as good as a mouse for viewing, when we tested this beta the beta team asked Jim/Birch if a dead zone could be added to Mouse Emulation (Relative mode) and it cant at the moment but they are going to really look at some system to be able to do this I belive Jim said, so you will not be able to add any dead zone to IL2 untill we get support from Oleg.
If you end up bining it how much do you want for it as ill buy it off you I want a second one for my next computer, I think however you need to sit back take a breath and try a sim that has Absolute mode built in (BOB & FS2002) you will see what TIR can really do in those games and what it will be like once Oleg releases support for TIR in his games.
If you moveing your head too far you still have some settings wrong some where in either IL2 mouse settings (what are yours) or maybe Windows mouse settings.
My TIR settings for IL2 are at 20 on the X & Y and im hardly moveing my head to get full 1 & 3 oclock views, ill admit that the settings dont seem to go as high as they used too though.
Re: Not much impressed.
Joystick mapping...when I highlight a key command in the TIR interface I want to be able to hit a button on my joystick and have TIR recognize it. Unfortunately TIR will accept only keys on the keyboard.
So, to get F7 for instance to work in TIR via my joystick I would have to use seperate software (Foxy-Cougar), which I will not do because Foxy is buggy crap.
That's why I run my Cougar in Window's mode only (otherwise known as DirectX mode).
As for moving my head too far...with v1.40 I had my unit a long way from my head to get max FOV. To make sure the unit could still get a response I made a big dot by using five dots together on a panel on my hat. It worked.
Now, with sliders at max, I'm getting too little in-cockpit movement even with max head movement. I CAN get over-shoulder views but I'm seriously twisting my head and losing center too much. It's all a pain and a chore and no fun at all. So it's on the shelf until FB comes out.
[ February 19, 2003, 08:16 AM: Message edited by: Siggi ]
So, to get F7 for instance to work in TIR via my joystick I would have to use seperate software (Foxy-Cougar), which I will not do because Foxy is buggy crap.
That's why I run my Cougar in Window's mode only (otherwise known as DirectX mode).
As for moving my head too far...with v1.40 I had my unit a long way from my head to get max FOV. To make sure the unit could still get a response I made a big dot by using five dots together on a panel on my hat. It worked.
Now, with sliders at max, I'm getting too little in-cockpit movement even with max head movement. I CAN get over-shoulder views but I'm seriously twisting my head and losing center too much. It's all a pain and a chore and no fun at all. So it's on the shelf until FB comes out.
[ February 19, 2003, 08:16 AM: Message edited by: Siggi ]
Re: Not much impressed.
Ok Siggi im with you now
As for Foxy being buggy well I dont find it is so I cant help you there as I use my Cougar in Emulation mode (Foxy programed)
Ok as for using Joystick buttons (DX9) being used for TIR hotkeys I have never seen a request about this at all on these forums and I guess that the TIR developers havent implimented it because of no such request, maybe if you took a positive attitude and made a request for this feature it would be looked at and put up on the future development board that the TIR guys have, they are and have been very open to request for features and im sure that something like using joystck buttons for Hotkeys can be added into a future version, all it takes is some discussion about what you want instead of moaning its not there.
As for you unit being so far away from you is there a reason for this ?? do you have a home built cockpit at all and sit fat away from the moniter ??, im sure there are solutions to your promblems but you need to work through them with people, there is a lot of help here and on the SIMHQ IL2 forum about makeing TIR work the way you want it too, you just need to ask in a friendly manner thats all.
It seems to me from the day you arrived here that you havent really given TIR a chance, a thing like TIR takes time to master and understand and get working right, all info about what TIR was and is capable of doing has been posted on forums like the IL2 one at Simhq, you just need to take your time with it get it setup right for you and practise using it untill you become comfy with it.
I myself dont use it in IL2 as much as I would like as FS2002 and Absolute mode have spoiled me as I can control my TIR center in FS2002 much better than IL2, but people like DNME absolutley rock with it in IL2, im waiting for the IL2 FB and TIR to be implemented right before I use 100% in IL2, but I think the diffrence between me & you Siggi is I know what TIR is capable off as I have used it sims that support Absolute mode and you havent so you havent seen TIR at its best
BTW this isnt a flame just trying to get you sorted out
As for Foxy being buggy well I dont find it is so I cant help you there as I use my Cougar in Emulation mode (Foxy programed)
Ok as for using Joystick buttons (DX9) being used for TIR hotkeys I have never seen a request about this at all on these forums and I guess that the TIR developers havent implimented it because of no such request, maybe if you took a positive attitude and made a request for this feature it would be looked at and put up on the future development board that the TIR guys have, they are and have been very open to request for features and im sure that something like using joystck buttons for Hotkeys can be added into a future version, all it takes is some discussion about what you want instead of moaning its not there.
As for you unit being so far away from you is there a reason for this ?? do you have a home built cockpit at all and sit fat away from the moniter ??, im sure there are solutions to your promblems but you need to work through them with people, there is a lot of help here and on the SIMHQ IL2 forum about makeing TIR work the way you want it too, you just need to ask in a friendly manner thats all.
It seems to me from the day you arrived here that you havent really given TIR a chance, a thing like TIR takes time to master and understand and get working right, all info about what TIR was and is capable of doing has been posted on forums like the IL2 one at Simhq, you just need to take your time with it get it setup right for you and practise using it untill you become comfy with it.
I myself dont use it in IL2 as much as I would like as FS2002 and Absolute mode have spoiled me as I can control my TIR center in FS2002 much better than IL2, but people like DNME absolutley rock with it in IL2, im waiting for the IL2 FB and TIR to be implemented right before I use 100% in IL2, but I think the diffrence between me & you Siggi is I know what TIR is capable off as I have used it sims that support Absolute mode and you havent so you havent seen TIR at its best
BTW this isnt a flame just trying to get you sorted out
Re: Not much impressed.
Yes, I do have a cockpit but I have latitude where the monitor's position is concerned (about eight inches).
What I find is with the monitor at minimum distance the TIR's FOV becomes too small and I lose the edges of travel. With the monitor at maximum distance I found the TIR couldn't see the dot very well, so I made a bigger dot and that fixed the problem.
(Note...the TIR is on top of the monitor.)
I know exactly how TIR works, what it's theoretical capabilities are and what hampers it. Basically it is too small and weak. It needs to be physically bigger (thus with a bigger FOV) and it needs to be more powerful (stronger IR radiance). Then it could be mounted a workable distance away, instead of a bloody inadequate and awkward arm's length. It's because of having to work around these limitations that the unit does not perform superlatively, and only works adequately when a lot of fiddling and tweaking has gotten it to it's razor-fine edge of acceptability. Unfortunately, with v2.0 I find that edge no longer attainable and that is why I'm now waiting for FB before I bugger about with it any more.
Re the joystick mapping...I assumed it was in the works because it's pretty bloody obvious that direct mapping is needed. At least it is to me. You say nobody has already requested it??? Maybe they thought it was as obvioiusly needed as I did and assumed it was on the cards too.
I speak as I find mate. Do you expect me to praise the product just because? My report reflects my appraisal of it thus far, regardless of how much success other people might have had with it. As it stands right now the unit is useless for ME. I'm not knocking it, because my particular parameters obviously don't fit into the sweet-spot. Hopefully when FB is released I will find my spot.
What I find is with the monitor at minimum distance the TIR's FOV becomes too small and I lose the edges of travel. With the monitor at maximum distance I found the TIR couldn't see the dot very well, so I made a bigger dot and that fixed the problem.
(Note...the TIR is on top of the monitor.)
I know exactly how TIR works, what it's theoretical capabilities are and what hampers it. Basically it is too small and weak. It needs to be physically bigger (thus with a bigger FOV) and it needs to be more powerful (stronger IR radiance). Then it could be mounted a workable distance away, instead of a bloody inadequate and awkward arm's length. It's because of having to work around these limitations that the unit does not perform superlatively, and only works adequately when a lot of fiddling and tweaking has gotten it to it's razor-fine edge of acceptability. Unfortunately, with v2.0 I find that edge no longer attainable and that is why I'm now waiting for FB before I bugger about with it any more.
Re the joystick mapping...I assumed it was in the works because it's pretty bloody obvious that direct mapping is needed. At least it is to me. You say nobody has already requested it??? Maybe they thought it was as obvioiusly needed as I did and assumed it was on the cards too.
I speak as I find mate. Do you expect me to praise the product just because? My report reflects my appraisal of it thus far, regardless of how much success other people might have had with it. As it stands right now the unit is useless for ME. I'm not knocking it, because my particular parameters obviously don't fit into the sweet-spot. Hopefully when FB is released I will find my spot.
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Charlie251
- Posts: 955
- Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 5:00 am
- Location: Melbourne, Florida
Re: Not much impressed.
You apparently speak your negative thoughts before trying to get it to work right. That is what hotdog was trying to say I beleive. What are your settings at?
8" from your dot should not be a problem. I keep mine anywhere from 7" to 12" depending on how I am sitting. When I want ultra fast movements, I sit closer. When I want slower, I sit back a bit. I have X-Y set to 20 and smoothing at 75.
Go into your motions tab and ensure the dot is centered on that screen. I do not even use half of the full FOV on it. I turn my head slightly for full throw and could continue going, enough to move all the way around a 360 degree circle in the cokpit if IL-2 let me do that. The FOV is fine. Your settings are just to low and giving weak performance.
As for the power of the LEDs, I have a gold lamp sitting about 15 feet from my TIR unit (behind me) and it reflects off it just fine. I have to cover the gold part with a towel (or shut the door) when I turn on TIR to avoid having the IR clutter when playing. So if yours is weak, maybe you got a bad one? Grab a reflective surface, turn on TIR, and walk backwards with it. See how far you get before it disappears. The joy of IR is you only need a few mA to go great distances.
Maybe you should consider building an Active LED unit. That will give you all the distance you want and better performance. If you cant build one (no soldering is needed if you do it right) then ask someone who has one on the net to build you one. Most guys are pretty laid back about it and would probably only charge you parts and shipping.... which would be less than $20.
Deadzone is in absolute mode. From day one everyone has been saying that version 2.0 still needs integrated support for advanced features. If you didnt get that word, sorry. But it has been said. As soon as you can use absolute mode, you will have deadzone, single point adjustments, and perfect head tracking.
You may have your own idea as to how you would like TIR to work, but reality may be different. I do not have a single problem with any of the things you have posted complaining about. I have also spent a bit of time perfecting my settings so that they work perfect..... not just once or twice and then gave up and started slamming NP in the forums.
Spend a bit of time and get your settings right and you wont have a problem.
Oh, and on the cougar issue.... almost everyone uses external software for joystick keymapping. Having TIR read DX button commands from windows, relayed from a joystick, would only benifit a few. Im sorry if your $300 joystick isnt supported with good software, my $70 X45 has great software. Maybe it is something that NP would consider doing. Post it in the feature request page of the main forum. You might just get a positive responce and see what you request in version 2.1 (which is already in the works).
But being negative before youve even given the unit a chance is not the way to win respect around here.
8" from your dot should not be a problem. I keep mine anywhere from 7" to 12" depending on how I am sitting. When I want ultra fast movements, I sit closer. When I want slower, I sit back a bit. I have X-Y set to 20 and smoothing at 75.
Go into your motions tab and ensure the dot is centered on that screen. I do not even use half of the full FOV on it. I turn my head slightly for full throw and could continue going, enough to move all the way around a 360 degree circle in the cokpit if IL-2 let me do that. The FOV is fine. Your settings are just to low and giving weak performance.
As for the power of the LEDs, I have a gold lamp sitting about 15 feet from my TIR unit (behind me) and it reflects off it just fine. I have to cover the gold part with a towel (or shut the door) when I turn on TIR to avoid having the IR clutter when playing. So if yours is weak, maybe you got a bad one? Grab a reflective surface, turn on TIR, and walk backwards with it. See how far you get before it disappears. The joy of IR is you only need a few mA to go great distances.
Maybe you should consider building an Active LED unit. That will give you all the distance you want and better performance. If you cant build one (no soldering is needed if you do it right) then ask someone who has one on the net to build you one. Most guys are pretty laid back about it and would probably only charge you parts and shipping.... which would be less than $20.
Deadzone is in absolute mode. From day one everyone has been saying that version 2.0 still needs integrated support for advanced features. If you didnt get that word, sorry. But it has been said. As soon as you can use absolute mode, you will have deadzone, single point adjustments, and perfect head tracking.
You may have your own idea as to how you would like TIR to work, but reality may be different. I do not have a single problem with any of the things you have posted complaining about. I have also spent a bit of time perfecting my settings so that they work perfect..... not just once or twice and then gave up and started slamming NP in the forums.
Spend a bit of time and get your settings right and you wont have a problem.
Oh, and on the cougar issue.... almost everyone uses external software for joystick keymapping. Having TIR read DX button commands from windows, relayed from a joystick, would only benifit a few. Im sorry if your $300 joystick isnt supported with good software, my $70 X45 has great software. Maybe it is something that NP would consider doing. Post it in the feature request page of the main forum. You might just get a positive responce and see what you request in version 2.1 (which is already in the works).
But being negative before youve even given the unit a chance is not the way to win respect around here.
Re: Not much impressed.
I wonder how you deduced I spoke my negative thoughts before trying to get the unit to work right? Maybe there's a clue in the fact you completely misunderstood one salient point in my post above and think my dot is eight inches from the unit. The eight inches I refer to, quite clearly imo, is the latitude I have in positioning my monitor in the cockpit. The approx distance between the dot and the TIR is actually two and a half feet.
I think you need to take an anti-evangelism pill or something.
Re the Cougar, I have to agree with you on that. The software for it is an absolute disgrace. If you ain't a professional programmer you better forget about using it in emulation mode. They need to take a look at Saitek's GUI interface.
I won't get into the gimbals and pots other than to say $300 stick, 300-penny components. Still don't regret buying it though, much as I wish they'd done a better job.
Could say the same about TIR, though FB performance is still an unknown consideration at this point.
[ February 19, 2003, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: Siggi ]
I think you need to take an anti-evangelism pill or something.
Re the Cougar, I have to agree with you on that. The software for it is an absolute disgrace. If you ain't a professional programmer you better forget about using it in emulation mode. They need to take a look at Saitek's GUI interface.
I won't get into the gimbals and pots other than to say $300 stick, 300-penny components. Still don't regret buying it though, much as I wish they'd done a better job.
Could say the same about TIR, though FB performance is still an unknown consideration at this point.
[ February 19, 2003, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: Siggi ]
Re: Not much impressed.
Oh yeah, I forgot about the in-game mouse scaling. I'll give that a go, cheers.