TIR1 and TIR2: Not USB2 compatible?

[Jim]

Hello:

This is really getting out of hand. As the designer of the hardware and co-founder of the company I can tell you that we care about our customers, without them we are nothing. We have two full time tech support representatives for the TrackIR line. We have a toll free support line, listed on our web sites, 888-865-5535. We get back to people within 24 hours on email, except for hard problems or when there is a holiday. We value our reputation.

We will replace any hardware within 1 year of purchase. We will refund any hardware within 30 days, no questions asked. We will spend hours on the phone with you to get the system setup correctly, not to mention working with USB.

We have spent thousands upon thousands of dollars on USB compliance testing. We are a small company that can offer the best service possible, but not HP where they can test on every possible hardware combination.

The problem is happening on a very small percentage of systems, perhaps .5% (one half of one percent). We realize that this is not acceptable, but we can't replicate the problem here and we have been able to fix many of the systems by having a USB 2.0 card installed or doing a clean XP install with all updated drivers. We are working on ways to improve compatiblity with the problem systems in software. We do not believe that we have a hardware problem.

One example of a recent fix; A customer bought a TrackIR2 and installed it on a new XP machine with a P4. Got the Device Not Recognized error. Emailed us. We traced the problem to a 250 watt power supply he was using, upgrading to a 400 watt supply fixed the problem. We were able to duplicate this problem here. This problem took 3 days to resolve and cost much more than the money we made from what is basically a $99 device.

I hope this post clears up some issues and preceptions that we don't care.

[ January 13, 2004, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: Jim Richardson ]

[snake122]

quote:Originally posted by Jim Richardson:
Hello:

This is really getting out of hand. As the designer of the hardware and co-founder of the company I can tell you that we care about our customers, without them we are nothing. We have two full time tech support representatives for the TrackIR line. We have a toll free support line, listed on our web sites, 888-865-5535. We get back to people within 24 hours on email, except for hard problems or when there is a holiday. We value our reputation.

We will replace any hardware within 1 year of purchase. We will refund any hardware within 30 days, no questions asked. We will spend hours on the phone with you to get the system setup correctly, not to mention working with USB.

We have spent thousands upon thousands of dollars on USB compliance testing. We are a small company that can offer the best service possible, but not HP where they can test on every possible hardware combination.

The problem is happening on a very small percentage of systems, perhaps .5% (one half of one percent). We realize that this is not acceptable, but we can't replicate the problem here and we have been able to fix many of the systems by having a USB 2.0 card installed or doing a clean XP install with all updated drivers. We are working on ways to improve compatiblity with the problem systems in software. We do not believe that we have a hardware problem.

One example of a recent fix; A customer bought a TrackIR2 and installed it on a new XP machine with a P4. Got the Device Not Recognized error. Emailed us. We traced the problem to a 250 watt power supply he was using, upgrading to a 400 watt supply fixed the problem. We were able to duplicate this problem here. This problem took 3 days to resolve and cost much more than the money we made from what is basically a $99 device.

I hope this post clears up some issues and preceptions that we don't care.I got to go with Jim on this one. I'm even one of the guys with the USB device problem! I do wish they had more solutions, I'm pretty sure it's not a power supply issue on my system since a XP reinstall fixed it the first time and both my TrackIR1 and 2 work on my seriously underpowered 1.3 ghz system (250 watts running a Voodoo5 and ATI 7000). I do believe that these issues will be cleared up and that Jim really does care about his products, his ompany's image, and customer satisfaction.

To everybody with the USB Device error, please checkout this thread for more info on all the fixes that have been attempted for this problem. http://forums.naturalpoint.com/cgi-bin/ ... 3;t=000210

Maybe we can find more of a common thread in our problems. I noticed this second that I've had this problem that it poped up after I had installed two other USB devices without the TrackIR2 plugged in. I then plugged it in with my computer off and when I got into Windows, wam there was the USB device error.

[Leavesden]

Exactly the same problem here. Using Track IR " on windows XP (home0 and I think USB 2 ports. Unfortutnalty I am a complete computer novice and do not know how to or want to flasj Mobos' BIOS or reinstall XP. From all i have read this is hit and miss anyway and works for some but not others. also depressingly it seems that these solutions only seem to work for a finite time before problem reappears. Thi sis my secnd TIR2 the first having exaclty the same problem and being sent back for a replacement via an RMA. As I live in the UK (don't know what happens in USA) have had to pay about 10% thse cost for the return pst. will now proabalby have to do the same thus just to send 2 units which do not work thruogh no fault of my own back will cost me 20% the price of the thing in the first place. This is dissappointing especially as threads were being posted on htis subject BEFORE I sent the first one back (withotumy knowledge). I certainyl think this is a TIR2 driver issue as all other USB thoings i have work fine thank you very much. Therefore i asume it is fixable with new drivers. I am funnily euogh just going to replace my PSU for a lot higher powered one so will see how that goes. If it works will let you al know

I REALLY want tir2 to work - and can't help but thinking that if I had waited and brought this later all these bugs will have been fixed. One good thing is that at least I am not alone with the problem.

One final thing - tried my latest TIR" in W98 achine -works fine!!!!!

Heres hoping.

p.s other than taking the machine apart is there anyway from windows to find what Mother board the machine uses and what driver versions they are. Same for BIOS althuogh - when i have loaded into this there are very few if any opitions - certianly not USB 2 or indeed one on off options.

[Leavesden]

Sorry about the spelling by the way my enthusiam over took my typing ability.

[AV8R]

Im the first to applaud NP for stepping in and heading off any potential personalization and cheerleading (aka trolling). This kind of thing only detracts from the technical resolution process at hand. TIR is not a pathetic product that needs this kind of "support".

What technical customer forums are really all about - are for customers voicing what works and what does not in a constructive and reasonable way.

Its a testiment to the percieved value of the product to the simming experience that many are unwilling to give up on the TIR easily. As one that owns two TIR's, I can say when they work - they are invaluable. When they don't, its quite frustrating.

There are others that are looking to this thread and elsewhere for a reasonable and workable resolution to thier TIRs not working, albiet 0.5% or more. No one likes being in that camp, and when you are, you want to be taken seriously and with reasonable support workarounds. So NP's leadership is key to finding a reasonable workaround and understanding as what might be done in future models to avert this situation.

This symptom of the user's system of not recognizing the TIR hardware, or TIR software not finding the file (which file exactly, and where?) after a clean re-installation of the application occurs over many types of motherboards, power requirements and user OS configurations.

Perhaps theres a way the installation can be localized as to not be user OS and file/driver dependant? Could a special rig be made to utilize a different I/F other than USB to isolate out that factor?

Once this can be done, then the hardware and software aspects of this complex problem and be better managed and trouble shot.

AV8R
"Debugging = Divide and Conquer"

[ January 14, 2004, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: AV8R ]

[Allard]

I seem to have caught a mild variation of the "USB Device not recognized" problem. It only occurs after I've booted my PC. If I unplug the TrackIR and reconnect it, it works properly. I wonder if using a powered USB hub might solve this problem?

My specs:
TrackIR2
Mobo: Abit kt7-RAID (Via KT133 chipset, USB 1.1)
CPU: AMD Athlon 850Mhz
Cards: SB live platinum, Adaptec 2940uw, Asus7100 Pro, 3com905c
OS: Windows XP Professional

[Jim]

Allard:

Your problem is a bit different. It is due to the VIA chipset on your motherboard, this is a known issue. You can solve it by upgrading your VIA 4in1 drivers, but it can be complicated by your SB Live card. My best suggestion is to purchase a $20 USB 2.0 add on card, that will solve this problem. We saw this one quite a bit about 2 years ago, but Via seems to have fixed the problem in new motherboards.

[Alexi_Alx_Anova]

Jim,

I just want to re-post this in case it has been overlooked since Nov. when I first posted it. I don't remember exactly, but I suspect my TrackIR1 started having USB problems after I updated the USB from the Microsoft web site.

Alexi

"There was a recent Microsoft update for USB drivers that I at least installed. Could this be the problem with only some people having installed it?

More info. here;"

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=822603

[Yoda_100]

I've had DirectX upgrades hose multi-player in LAN sim sessions. (DX9) So I suppose USB uprade could do it also. I found Windows re-install/repair would take me back to DX8. So maybe it could get you back to before the USB update. But I'm gonna wait 'till NP has a chance to find a fix for us.

[Jim]

Hello:

We have confirmed that if you use Windows Update, and update the USB system, while the TrackIR is plugged in, then it can cause major driver problems. This is a Microsoft problem, and we have documented it happening to many other customers of different products than ours. We do have a proceedure to fix the problem, but it is very detailed and involves editing the registry. You can contact our tech support department for the instructions. support@naturalpoint.com