Surrender 2

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fbass
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 5:00 am
Location: Montgomery, Alabama USA

Surrender 2

Post by fbass »

Well, I received wonderful and helpful responses from all of you on this tracker. However, I'm afraid in its current installation and configuration, I cannot use this device - it is just too unstable.

You cannot fly a large jet aircraft with your view going all over the screen. I've tried a number of 3rd party profiles (BETA testers), numerous settings, and 4 installation methods - all to no avail.

I have difficulty understanding the user interface screens and setup manual. Maybe it is just me but if you can't make something work properly in a relatively short time and without going into difficult technical procedures, then the product is not, in my opinion, for general use. Of course people who have the time to tinker with a device like this for hours on end will probably find a comfort level they can live with.

I want to again thank all of those folks that tried to help me. I'm very disappointed with the outcome here because I really wanted the functionality this device has.

fb
DonULFonso
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:00 am
Location: near THE Neandert(h)al (Germany for all Homo Sapiens)

Re: Surrender 2

Post by DonULFonso »

Erm, what exactly is your problem?

Too small dead-zones, I suppose, and too sensitive settings, probably? I for one had these issues when I got mine, and getting used to it can be a bitch at first.

If you like I could send you some profiles with varying dead-zones and sensitivities and a short and easy explanation how to modify 'em according to your own needs. That's how I got going: with the help of others - the profiles included in the installation unfortunately happened to be of no use for me and my personal taste.

One thing to keep in mind, though, regardless of which profile with which settings you're using is that it takes some time to get used to the TrackIR.

I'm a poor pilot anyway , but the 1st days using my new toy saw me lawn darting like never before, simply 'cause I thought I'd be turning more or less level while in fact I was going almost straight down - I didn't yet realize that these few centimeters I had turned my head up equalled looking straight up .

It's getting better, believe me, with some time...

[ September 22, 2004, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: DonULFonso ]
steku
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 5:00 am
Location: Wroclaw, POLAND

Re: Surrender 2

Post by steku »

Try to move TrackIR farther. This way angular travel of reflective dot translates to smaller movement perceived by TrackIR...
fbass
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 5:00 am
Location: Montgomery, Alabama USA

Re: Surrender 2

Post by fbass »

Thanks gentlemen. I really appreciate it.

Regarding installed distance - I've installed the receiver on a piece of flat aluminum that comes out from the monitor (just above it) to a point approximately 21 inches from my head. The sticker is on a clip on top of my headset mounted to a large straw. Note: the receiver is almost level with the top of my head so there is very little angle of reception.

I've tried moving closer and farther away with no appreciable results improving stability.

Regarding instability - when I talk about this implementation being unstable I'm not talking about small amounts of directional linkage. I'm talking about starting a flight on the active runway and only being able to see the bottom of the seats or the back of the cockpit or the roof of the cabin. I try centering the view using F12 but F12 in FS2004 is the application of the right brake so nothing happens.

fb
Charvel
Posts: 521
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2003 5:00 am
Location: Canada
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Re: Surrender 2

Post by Charvel »

fbass you are sooo close and I'd hate to see you give up when you're almost there!

Just remap your FS2004 brake to something else first off (I didn't know there was a conflict!) or remap the centre view in the TIR software to something else.

As for adjusting the sensitivity think of the horizontal graph on your motion screen (the one going left to right) as making the device slower (less sensitive) when the line is near the bottom and faster (more sensitive) as it approaches the top. The centre of the graph indicates the centre of the screen (looking forward in game) while the outer areas are the edges of the screen (left and right views out the cockpit).

So if you want to make a deadzone (zero sensitivity) in the center forward view move your edit points slider to the left and bring the speed down to zero. Maybe do the same for the next couple sets of points to then gradually add some more speed as you go out to the side and back views. If it's too fast over all then bring all the values down a few points more until it feels more natural and comfortable.

To test your new settings go into the game, look directly ahead of you to the center of the monitor and hit your re-center key (usually F12 or whatever you've changed it to). Then see what it's like. If it doesn't stay still without putting your neck in a vice looking out the front windshield then reduce the values again. If the view is too fast and unstable looking out the sides then bring the outer values down more too.

Of course if you find that you can't see all the way around to the back in the game because your head goes too far then maybe bring up the outer points a bit more so that it accelerates your view when looking out the sides.

Remember that since you can't completely turn your head behind you in real life to look out the back (well we wouldn't need TIR then would we ) the TIR has to extrapolate a smaller movement scale to achieve a greater range of apparant movement in the game. The only trick is finding the most comfortable zone and letting yourself get used to it.

Believe me after a few days it will all start to make sense and soon enough you won't have to even think about where you are looking! It does take a little time and a bit of practice though. Everyone I know who has had similar problems with getting used to it has told me they are glad they stuck with it despite the initial frustration and now it feels both comfortable and natural.

Another note is to try to keep your framerates up in the game, perhaps by bringing some graphical settings down. With frame rates above 40 or 60 fps the device feels much much better.
DonULFonso
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:00 am
Location: near THE Neandert(h)al (Germany for all Homo Sapiens)

Re: Surrender 2

Post by DonULFonso »

OK, Frank,

let's try to get it sorted .

I installed the software according to the instructions given in the readme and during that process with the TrackIR disconnected. BTW, I run Windows XP.

After the installation, I plugged in my TrackIR. Note that it's usually suggested to not plug it into a HUB (powered or not), but straight into any of the onboard USB-plugs; I originally had connected it to my monitor's HUB, next to my HOTAS Cougar, but I had to plug it directly into said onboard-port for it to work properly.

My TrackIR came along without the mounting-bracket that's included nowadays; I simply put it on top of my monitor, slightly more than an arm's length away from the dot which I stuck on the upper-front of my head-set's mikrophone. My usual distance between the dot and the receiver is about 80cm. Don't sit too close, the farther away the smoother the tracking and thus movement.

When you 1st run the TrackIR-software, be sure to have everything the way you intend to use it; if you should use a dot on your mike, too, put on your head-set and sit back exactly in the position and way you sit while playing.

I don't remember whether you need to load a profile before testing and "calibrating" your TrackIR; it doesn't hurt to do so. On the TrackIR-software's "Motion"-tab check that "TrackIR Enhanced (Absolute)" mode is selected; "Mouse Emulation (Relative)" mode means you're controlling your mouse-pointer, which can be somewhat confusing while setting it up.

Select the "Tracking"-tab and adjust your TrackIR, the receiver, so that the green dot is seen inside the black tracking-box. If your TrackIR sits on top of your monitor, then you can ignore the "Camera Rotation"-settings and go straight to the "Dot Tracking Filters". Select "Dot" or "TrackHat"; you may have to play around with the "Preferred Object Size (Pixels)" a little to find a setting that suits your needs best. Leave the "Illumination LEDs On"!

OK, you've got a profile loaded respectively "Create New" selected. I'd suggest to simply copy any of the included .tir-files and save it under a different name so that you can play around with the settings without mesing up the original file.

The "Motion"-tab is the place to do this. Usually, you'll wanna use the "Absolute" TrackIR-mode for games that support it instead of the "Relative" mouse-control mode, so check the according box on top. The "Motion Presets"-scrollbar lets you chose from a number of presets: "Linear" gives you a linear response, i.e. you move your head a certain percentage of the total tracking-travel and get the according proportional movement/speed, "Smooth" and "Agressive" both give you a small center dead-zone with increasing speed the farther you twist your head, with "Smooth" levelling out at a fixed speed somewhere on the way but "Agressive" increasing the speed the farther you twist your head;
Without further tweaking they are of not much use. "Deadzone" is kind of a combination of "Linear" and "Smooth", but with a great center dead-zone of more than just one single "edit-point" at the center; I'll come to these "edit-points" later. "Progressive", well, try it out and see yourself: it's a combination of "Smooth" and "Agressive".

These presets are just "suggestions" which you can use as templates to buid your own profiles; without further tweaking they are of not much use. To customize a profile you'll have to adjust the "Speed" of the "edit-points" and the "Smoothing" of the response-curve defined via these edit-points' settings. If you don't see the according sliders, simply click on "Click here to customize" and they are displayed.

You 1st have to specify how exactly you want to "Edit a Motion Axis". You can mark either the "X" (horizontal) or "Y" (vertical) axis, and you can toggle that small chain-symbol between both on/off; "on", i.e. blue, means that every modification you do applies on both axes, "off, i.e. gray, allows you to modify the settings of the specified axis only. Usually, you'll leave this "chained" mode "on".

OK, now what exactly is an "Edit Point"? "Edit Points" are only available in "Absolute" movement-mode! Remember that this is the TrackIR's "native" mode and the one you'll usually use. Click on the "+" and "-" next to the "Edit Point" slider and watch the little yellow triangles move; these are the markers that show you the position of an "Edit Point". If you change a "Speed"-setting then you change it for the shown position among the tracking-field's travel. Since left/right and up/down usually are mirrored, you get 2 markers for all off-center "Edit Points'" positions.

The "Smooting" applies on the response-curve that's defined by the "Edit Points" and their "Speed"-settings. Basically it's some sort of "filter" that allows you to sort out "spikes" and that flattens out the movement if you wiggle and wobble around. Higher "Smooting" leads to a more natural view but may cause some "lag" of said movement; personally, I use high settings but could never notice any such "lag".

Last but not least there's the "HotKeys"-tab where you can bind keyboard-keys (but no analog joystick-buttons) to the TrackIR's functions. To change a mapping simply click on the "Redefine" symbol left of each function and press the desired key. Note that you cannot map a key that's already used; in this case you'll have to 1st re-map that other function before assigning the then free key. Try to find keys that are not mapped in the game you're gonna play, or at least mapped to game-functions you don't use respectively where you can use analog DirectX-buttons instead.

The most essential function is "Center". This is what "calibrates" your TrackIR in-game: press this key when your head is in its natural position looking forward and neither twisted sideways not tilted up or down, and the current position will be your center-view looking straight forward. Map this key to your joystick, it's an - the! - essential one and needed rather frequently! If you should own a programmable joystick, then you could e.g. assign it to the same coolie-position that's "look forward" anyway; this way you'd spare a button and could re-center and override your TrackIR-view at the same time.

The "Enable/Disable"-function is something I personally usually don't use; it may be handy to temporarily switch off TrackIR-support, e.g. when looking through the bombardier's Norden-sight in a WWII-bomber. I have only used the TrackIR in WarBirds yet, and I prefer to use the game's "mouse-look toggle" instead to avoid getting stuck in the last TrackIR-view.

The "Trap Key"-function is meant to "hide" a key that's mapped to a TrackIR-function from the game; this only seems to work for "normal" keys but not for the F-keys, for instance. "F12" thus wouldn't be a smart choice for a game where this key is an essential function you frequently use. It does work for "normal" keys, so if a game should have a function you don't really need (like the keypad-view keys: you don't need 'em any longer, do you) for instance, then you can (ab)use its key and "trap" it so that it will not be sent to the game but only seen by the TrackIR.

OK, that's it for the time being, more is to follow. I'll send you some profiles and probably screen-shots via e-mail later. Don't give up! It may be hard at 1st to get used to it, but it ROCKs!

More later,
Ulf

[ September 23, 2004, 06:23 AM: Message edited by: DonULFonso ]
fbass
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 5:00 am
Location: Montgomery, Alabama USA

Re: Surrender 2

Post by fbass »

OK my friends. You'll be happy to know that I'm almost there. It was something DonULFonso said about the distance from the sensor to the reciever - his was about 80cm. This is quite a bit farther than what the documentation calls for.

So, I moved the tracker all the way back to the monitor and VIOLA!!!! It works MUCH better. My installation is now about 40 inches instead of the 18 to 24 inches. Man, what a difference.

The only problem I have left (I think????) is I need much more dead zone around center. This would greatly reduce the strain on my neck in keeping still while looking forward. But, I managed to take off and land using the new install setup - so I'm close (or farther away depending on your viewpoint).

In addition, there must be a solution to the issue of 2D movement. At the distance I'm using, when I turn my head there is not enough view movement. If I move my head in a lateral plane while slightly turning on the Y axis, I get good sideways views. It would be much better if just turning my head produced that same kind of movement (in 3D).

All the other issues (except editing) were already covered in my setup. I haven't yet figured out what the pixel size adjustment does for you but maybe that will eventually be solved.

Again, thanks so much for all of your help - and also for your great patience. I know first hand just how hard it is to "hold a new user's hand" through something like this. You people are great (and very kind). The old man appreciates it.

WE'RE GETTING THERE!!!!!!

FB
Charvel
Posts: 521
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2003 5:00 am
Location: Canada
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Re: Surrender 2

Post by Charvel »

Ok, you should have no need to move your head in a lateral plane. Normal turning of the head works just fine if everything is set up right.

By the sounds of it you aren't getting much view distance travelled in the cockpit when turning your head as far as it is comfortable to look. Did you understand the concept of the motion page and how it works?

If not just play around with it by starting with both sliders (edit point and speed) all the way to the left with the X button on. Now move the speed lever and watch what happens in the graph. You'll see the center of it move up and down. In the cockpit this relates to how sensitive the TIR is to movement while you are staring directly ahead of you so having the speed at zero will make the view NOT move while staring straight ahead.

Now move the edit points slider one notch to the right and play with the speed slider. If you move the edit points slider all the way to the right it affects the edges of your view not the center, now you should be getting the idea.

So, if you want more dead zone in the centre move the edit points and speed slider so that you have zero sensitivity for the first few edit points then gradually raise them as you get to the outside so it becomes more sensitive (and moves faster in the cockpit as you turn your head.
DonULFonso
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:00 am
Location: near THE Neandert(h)al (Germany for all Homo Sapiens)

Re: Surrender 2

Post by DonULFonso »

Some sample profiles are on their way via e-mail, Frank, plus a graphical walk-through for the motion-page.

One question I'd like to ask: do you use a programmable joystick? (I suppose you're using no no-name cheapo for FS, surely?)

If so, then I'd recommend to map "center TrackIR" as well as the sim's "look forward" to your gear! "Center TrackIR" should be clear, this '(re-)calibrates' your tracker. "Look forward" in many sims can be used to temporarily override the TrackIR-view, and I couldn't fly WB without it: track a target via the TrackIR, but when I'm at his 6 I hold the button with this "look forward"-override to aim through my reticule.

What I mean is that you do not need a dead-zone too large but rather "just large enough", and then you can use additional keys/buttons to stabilize your forward-view.
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