forums.naturalpoint.com

Discussion and Support for the OptiTrack, SmartNav and TrackIR brands by NaturalPoint

Does "Active" Mode Pose Danger To Eyes?

by BPO6_GoldenWing » Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:35 am

I guess my point is that there is a guy over at the "Cougar World" forum claiming that the TrackIR in "active" mode damages the eyes and should be used in "passive" mode only.

Jim or Halstead need to nip this in the bud.

Gold [Wink]
BPO6_GoldenWing
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 5:00 am
Location: Orlando, Florida

by Charlie251 » Fri Sep 05, 2003 8:35 am

I still remember the guy claiming that Hyperlobby is a super spy program that allows Jiri to enter your hard drive without you knowing. [Big Grin]

Some people kill me. [Razz]

An Active IR source is the only way for you to operate in passive mode.

Gold: Did you ever use NVG's on your flights?

We had these fancy little IR strobes to use when we were in the dirt for pilots to ID our position at night while on CAS. Those suckers were powerful. A pilot at 30K AGL could see it flash easily.

Only reason I bring it up is that if these little dinky LEDs in the TIR will damage my eyes, its too late for me! [Big Grin]
Charlie251
 
Posts: 955
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 5:00 am
Location: Melbourne, Florida

by Reinhard » Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:02 pm

I don't have any idea, why naturalpoint doesn' t say anything to this topic already on their homepage, as it was only a question of time that anybody starts up this discussion because of lack of information about this.

I also don't understand that naturalpoint does not react on this thread and give a statement.

After all most of us are no technical specialists and it is more than understandable to worry about health in these days. What is more: I need my eyes for flight simulators !!! [Big Grin]

Reinhard

[ September 06, 2003, 06:14 AM: Message edited by: Reinhard ]
Reinhard
 
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2003 5:00 am

by Charlie251 » Sat Sep 06, 2003 4:25 am

If it helps.... Ive been using TrackIR for over a year. I just had an eye exam a few days ago and my vision hasnt changed one bit. Still the same perscription I had 4 years ago, and every year since. [Big Grin]

As for NP.... They are probably all busy working on the next version of the software. While they havent said anything officially about it, Jim made a comment on one of my threads a while back hinting that it was already in the process.

Remember that they are a very small company, last I heard it was 14 employees (unless I am confused.... I talk with alot of businesses) and they dont have the time to look every day. I bet something will come up soon.
Charlie251
 
Posts: 955
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 5:00 am
Location: Melbourne, Florida

by Charlie251 » Sat Sep 06, 2003 4:27 am

PS: Where in Germany do you live?

We recently traced our blood line to Germany (well, our blood imigrated just prior to the US Civil War... so it was many moons ago), but I have become interested in the culture and such. I finished up German I in college a few semesters ago and waiting for them to offer German II.

Just curious.
Charlie251
 
Posts: 955
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 5:00 am
Location: Melbourne, Florida

by Reinhard » Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:18 pm

Charlie, it's "Braunschweig" or as you would say "Brunswick" ;-))

Situated 50k to the east of Hannover (EXPO 2000 and Cebit town) so in the heart of good old Germany  -

Reinhard
Reinhard
 
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2003 5:00 am

by BPO6_GoldenWing » Sun Sep 07, 2003 5:28 pm

@Charlie:

We never got into the close air support thing...that was reserved for our AF & Marine brothers.

However, we did bump into the real laser danger on the high seas...

Gold

[ September 07, 2003, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: BoP_GoldenWing ]
BPO6_GoldenWing
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 5:00 am
Location: Orlando, Florida

by Charlie251 » Sun Sep 07, 2003 5:50 pm

As a follow up.... I went to the NP website (I have the forums bookmarked so I hardly ever see the site) and found this under the technical area....

Wavelength: 880nm

I've looked around on the net for information regarding the safety of a 880nm LED and couldnt find anything.

I did find a bit about lasers operating on 880nm but nothing on LEDs.
Charlie251
 
Posts: 955
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 5:00 am
Location: Melbourne, Florida

by Jim » Tue Sep 30, 2003 8:16 am

Hello:

Sorry for the very late reply, we have been busy working on the next generation of trackIR system; do get your hopes up!

This message is the official NaturalPoint response to all the speculation and down right funny posts I have been reading over the last two days.

The trackIR operates by tracking reflected or emitted IR light that is imaged by a CMOS sensor. The sensor and emitters are tuned to 880nm, slightly above the visible spectrum, you can see them emit a slight glow when the room lights are off, this is the very upper end of the red spectrum. The sensor and IR LEDs are covered by a very special plastic that we custom designed with Bayer to block all light below 820nm, it passes all light above this point, it is called a band pass filter.

The LEDs emit at 880nm and are standard off the shelf IR LEDs, we run them all the time with the unit is turned on. There are 4 of them and they each have a total radiant output of about 23mw/sr, that is 23miliwats per ster radian. Total output power is NOT 4 X 23 mw/sr as the LEDS do not overlap exactly, they create a coverage pattern with slight overlap at the edges. Also, the LEDs to not emit a uniform brightness, they have an angle to half intensity, so the center of the overlapping LEDs is the SAME brightness as the center of each LEDs output, hope that makes sense.

Your eyes ARE sensitive to IR light, you can�t see it, but your eyes will register the �power� of the light, your pupils will shrink down as if you were looking at light in the visible spectrum. Remember, we are just slightly above red in the visible spectrum. You won�t feel your pupils getting smaller when our device turns on because we are a relatively low level of light for an average room condition. If you turn out all the lights in the room, put the unit about 1 foot away from your face and watch your eyes in a mirror, you will see your pupils contract, they are �seeing� the IR light.

As for the amount of power the LEDs output, it is many of times lower than simply going outside, not to mention on a bright sunny day. As I had seen posted before, we are a small fraction of the IR output from a normal incandescent light bulb. ANSI references spec ANSI Z 136.1 � 2000 for laser power emission, but we are not a laser, so in the back of the spec they reference ANSI/IESNA RP-27.1-96, which is the spec for lamp output, basically what we are and what ANSI says to use. Maximum exposure for our wavelength range, which is from 700nm to 1100nm is 10mw/cm2. To convert our power output, which is about 30mw/sr, we apply sr x 1cm2/distance2. Typical user distance is 18� or about 45cm (on the conservative side, most users are further away), so 30mw/2025 = .015mw/cm2. Needless to say, we are on the safe side!

[ September 30, 2003, 09:41 PM: Message edited by: Jim Richardson ]
Jim
NaturalPoint Employee
NaturalPoint Employee
 
Posts: 1395
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 5:00 am
Location: Corvallis, Oregon

by tenmmike » Tue Sep 30, 2003 10:44 am

Jim Richardson .....sir can ya give us a little hint on next gen tir? will it be stand alone or will it work with what we have ....ya cant just leave us hanging can ya ?
tenmmike
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 5:00 am
Location: puyallup wa

PreviousNext

Return to TrackIR 1-3 & Vector Expansion