Vector zoom application in PF?

Dart
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Vector zoom application in PF?

Post by Dart » Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:56 pm

Okay, so 6 DOF isn't going to make it into PF.

Rather than get into a big moan about it, perhaps another option could be taken, one that takes advantage of the whole Vector goodness in a meaningful way.

Rather than look over stuff when moving forward, could we get a zoom/unzoom instead?

Think about it - you're doing ground attack, surveying the target area and you see something - you lean forward and it zooms smoothly (just like the mouse does in externals) to "gunsite" magnification. Lean back to get bearings, rotate to target, lean forward for a zoomed look on attack, lean back as you egress to look for other threats.

It would add value to the Vector (be sure), and, like the enhanced views of the TIR in the sim (versus the mouse), would be worth the price of admission in itself.

WhiskeyBravo
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Re: Vector zoom application in PF?

Post by WhiskeyBravo » Tue Dec 07, 2004 8:43 pm

Hehe Dart,

I just posted the following message over at SIMHQ and came here to mention it too. Only to see your post beat me to it. Great minds think alike heh?

I was wondering if the NP guys would be able to comment on the idea?

I respect and understand totally Oleg's reasons for not implementing the full 6DOF capability of the Vector Expansion unit. But, as several people have already mentioned elsewhere, what about using the VE to allow a user to control the zoom function. The core functionality already exists via key presses so it can't be that difficult can it?

This would obviate the need for any reworking of the cockpits and would add immeasurably to the immersiveness of the sim.


We live in hope,

WB.

[ December 08, 2004, 03:43 AM: Message edited by: WhiskeyBravo ]

Charlie251
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Re: Vector zoom application in PF?

Post by Charlie251 » Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:53 pm

I would love to see any type of 6DOF features put into FB. This seems to be the best solution to the situation at this time.

However, even this is not NP's call. You would have to query Oleg on this matter as it is his decision as to whether to add it to PF or not.

Dart
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Re: Vector zoom application in PF?

Post by Dart » Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:41 pm

Well, I was sort of hoping that the folks who routinely speak with him on Vector issues might take it up.



I mean, hey, it would be a great compromise - and everybody comes away with something:

1) Vector gets a unique feature (smooth zoom in and out rather than the button press jumps between zooms in cockpit).

2) Oleg gets to retain his position in regards to the views and a cool new feature to tout (IIRC, FB was one of the first with enhanced mode) as well as the reputation for sim support.

3) We get a zoom in cockpit attached to our heads. Okay, okay, I get a zoom attached to my head in the sim. And it really is all about me, after all.

Charlie251
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Re: Vector zoom application in PF?

Post by Charlie251 » Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:39 am

Dang right it is all about you. Everything is about the individual joy of the end user. That is my big slogan for all this stuff.

There are a few testers experimenting with Vector + TIRJoy and a few other of the 'axis-emulators' that are out there. A few of the developers of these third party software sets are interested in adding 6DOF capability to their programs.

While this will not give us the lean feature, it would allow us to map all motion to a joystick type axis or to keypresses.

Meaning, a highly advanced version of a keymapper.

This will allow you to get zoom in PF without actually having 6DOF capability in the game.

Time will tell on that one. Best hope is for Oleg to do it.

AndyHill
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Re: Vector zoom application in PF?

Post by AndyHill » Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:06 am

I read a fantastic idea on the ubi forums. How about a limited 6DOF? The simulator already has head movement caused by g-forces so there must be some amount of flexibility in the head position. Not vey much, but definitely enough to see around the struts a tiny bit better AND to experiment with full 6DOF.

Have you guys at NP tried lobbying this to Oleg? You could tell him that it's good to test this new feature before BoB and that you could make an emulation software that would allow you to control 6DOF with keyboard if someone without TIR wants it. Please consider this or let me out of my misery if you've already tried it and failed. I don't know how much effort this would require from Oleg but I'm certain it would be MUCH less than full motion.

I bet even this limited version would be a great feature to have. Please please consider this and let me know if it's been tried already or you're working on it, I can't stand the idea that there might be some way to get 6DOF to PF but no-one has asked Oleg about it.

AndyHill
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Re: Vector zoom application in PF?

Post by AndyHill » Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:12 am

And one more thing, how about ROTATION support? I haven't flown any aerobatic planes myself, but from the videos I've seen it seems that pilots tend to rotate their head to level with the horizon when doing rolling or banking maneuvers. Could it be possible to implement rotation with relatively little effeort? Pleasepleaseplease let it be possible.

Charlie251
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Re: Vector zoom application in PF?

Post by Charlie251 » Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:12 am

Im right there with you Andy.

Oleg has been given all the ideas, dreams, hopes, wishes, and begs. It is now just a time to wait and see if he will grant any of them. It completely rests on his shoulders to make the call and then make it happen in PF.

But yea, Bhodi brought the G-Force thing up and all that junk and I hope to see it supported.

AndyHill
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Re: Vector zoom application in PF?

Post by AndyHill » Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:49 am

Somehow I've gotten the idea that Oleg seems to be too much of a perfectionist in many issues and he needs some practical, simple solutions laid out in front of him, because he's probably very busy most of the time and will easily dismiss ideas that seem too difficult to implement. Take for example the muzzle flash issue. Oleg was thinking about changing the way lighting works in the game to make the flashes perfect under all thinkable circumstances, when all that the players wanted was a simple reduction in the size of the textures. After years of hearing how impossibly difficult it was the players got what they wanted.

At least that's how I think it went. I also think that if you could show Oleg how little you'd need to create a fantastically cool feature he could be persuaded. I don't actually know how much work a limited implementation would be, but I guesstimate it wouldn't be prohibitively much and might be worth it. Do you think it'll help if I start holding my breath again?

Charlie251
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Re: Vector zoom application in PF?

Post by Charlie251 » Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:41 pm

I think the only thing holding your breath for this would help is the doctors checkbook balance after you pass out, break your nose on the desk, and go visit him.

I am not sure what more can be done on the 'official' side of this between companies. the best thing now is for users to express their thoughts to Oleg in a highly professional and respectful manner. When he begins to see the amount of people that really want this, even in a limited sense, he may change his mind and investigate the possibilites of a limited implimentation.

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