My opinion on using Vector

609IAP_Recon
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2003 5:00 am

Re: My opinion on using Vector

Post by 609IAP_Recon » Fri Dec 17, 2004 6:12 am

God bless you - someone can actually put my experience in words!

Thanks

Let me add, I installed CFS3 today, and I found that the vector worked much better with CFS3 than PF. It is simple to me that since there is no PF Vector support, it's far better not to use Vector with PF.

The dot, as you stated, works excellent in PF, especially with this TrackIR3 Pro.

I do find that the CFS3 setup has some issues, such as getting stuck because of moving out of the restricted view, however, ie. when you lean, you lean. You don't get that feedback in IL2. Before, if you lean in IL2, you will slightly turn, so I have found that I trained myself to slightly lean. It actually feels more natural than putting all the work totally into turning my head.

In CFS3, when I leaned, I realized 'oops, I am meaning to turn'. I practically found myself stretching upward just maintain contact with a high 5oclock bandit. But there was feedback. In PF, if you lean, you don't see the lean, and then you subconsciously are wondering why the view isn't changing, since mentally I'm trying to lean back to see the back 5oclock bandit.

Guess I wanted to add this since I spent most the week working on PF and finally giving up on Vector, but then found it's usefulness of Vector in something like CFS3.

Btw- - the ability to move up to zoom in CFS3 is quite cool, as well as leaning up or down to see better

Edit: let me add, none of this in anyway is a knock on NP, this is a good product, I wonder if some of the tracking software could use some work for non-vector games.

[ December 17, 2004, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: 609IAP_Recon ]

trap
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:00 am

Re: My opinion on using Vector

Post by trap » Fri Dec 17, 2004 6:14 am

I have the same FOV problem in pitch, plus some times it will go only 45 degrees. Right now I am using dead zone, because I thought it was something I was doing when setting up the curves. I just jerk my head and it comes back to smooth scanning. It is still great!

steku
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 5:00 am
Location: Wroclaw, POLAND

Re: My opinion on using Vector

Post by steku » Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:23 am

quote:Originally posted by JRH147:
there are NO missing textures if there was some kind of limiter to how far you could move left or right. I'm sure that's where the resistance is because you'd have to do it individually for each plane - but a general global one would probably work fine.
I think implementing view limiter (in FS2004 especially) for left-right, forward-backward and up-down is great idea and not so hard to put into the code (I think). In real cockpit you have walls and windows as a limiters. For rotation movements you have limiters already built into your neck

Of course you can always install some glass panes around you for higher level of immersion.

[ December 17, 2004, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: steku ]

BM357_TinMan
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:00 am

Re: My opinion on using Vector

Post by BM357_TinMan » Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:41 am

quote:I think implementing view limiter (in FS2004 especially) for left-right, forward-backward and up-down is great idea and not so hard to put into the code (I think). In real cockpit you have walls and windows as a limiters. For rotation movements you have limiters already built into your neck

Of course you can always install some glass panes around you for higher level of immersion. Good Idea, but should be an option to enable, disable for side to side lean....

[ December 17, 2004, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: BM357_TinMan ]

BM357_TinMan
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:00 am

Re: My opinion on using Vector

Post by BM357_TinMan » Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:09 am

Just got back from trying out that spitfire you were talking about...

Sa-WEEEET. They did an excelent job on that thing.

I just spent another 35 bucks though...:$...somebody stop me

JRH147
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 5:00 am

Re: My opinion on using Vector

Post by JRH147 » Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:27 am

LOL - I know EXACTLY what you're talking about...but hey, it's the season, and there are some great things coming out lately.

Recon - good to know others feel the same way. I'm not worried though, I know all the bugs/quirks will eventually be worked out - until then, I'll still be getting my 50$ worth of entertainment...

ericd
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:00 am
Location: Portland, OR

Re: My opinion on using Vector

Post by ericd » Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:35 am

Can you guys describe your setup for me? I just tried this out in PF with the the default Combat Flight profile and I didn't have any trouble looking around (both yaw and pitch). Of course I wasn't in a battle, so that may have something to do with it.

I have my TrackIR a little over 3 feet away from me on top of my monitor. The TrackIR is basically in line with the vector clip as I sit in front of it. Turning left and right I don't have to look past the edge of my montior (21" flat panel) to be looking completely behind me. Its pretty much the same for pitch.

The FOV is an issue at times. Especially as you get closer to the device. Like somebody mentioned, there are 3 dots to track and if your starting position just has them barely fitting in the tracking view, it doesn't leave a lot of room for movement. My suggestion is to try and be about 3 feet away from the device to give yourself some room to move around.

Just a note on FS2004 and CFS3... Because the interfaces to these games aren't very good for view control, we had to implement a generic version for all views. Unfortunately, we do not have the ability to tell which plane we are in or when the view bumps into objects.

Games that are implemented with full 6DOF TrackIR Enhanced from the get go will behave better. If you want to try one, download the latest version of Aces High II and you can see how it works. As you move around you'll be restricted by the various cockpits and won't have the clipping issues...

steku
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 5:00 am
Location: Wroclaw, POLAND

Re: My opinion on using Vector

Post by steku » Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:18 am

quote:Originally posted by Eric Davison:
Just a note on FS2004 and CFS3... Because the interfaces to these games aren't very good for view control, we had to implement a generic version for all views. Unfortunately, we do not have the ability to tell which plane we are in or when the view bumps into objects.
Why you can't simply (or not so simply, I don't know) implement in next version of SW an adjustable linear movement limiter in curves editor (or gauges window) to limit maximum point-of-view displacement (it should be different for left and right movemnet because in many planes you sit on the right seat. The same for other linear movements.

Just a suggestion of a feature...

ericd
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:00 am
Location: Portland, OR

Re: My opinion on using Vector

Post by ericd » Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:29 am

This is actually on our long list of things to do.. In the meantime, one of the users discovered that you can adjust the acceleration curve to 0 from the point you want to limit movement. This effectively limits how far you can move in a given axis...

You'll have to create a profile for each cockpit you want to limit...

JRH147
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 5:00 am

Re: My opinion on using Vector

Post by JRH147 » Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:32 pm

3 feet away?! That seems pretty far. I'm not quite sure how far mine is from my head, but I think it's under 2 feet. I'll try moving it back farther this weekend. Right now it just sits on the edge of my monitor.

Left and right I get full range, up pitch I get pretty much full range, it's the down that really kills it for me - maybe 35-40% of range. If I adjusted up, I would lose the up capabilities (which is more important), but maybe moving it back would help.

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