My opinion on using Vector

ericd
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:00 am
Location: Portland, OR

Re: My opinion on using Vector

Post by ericd » Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:09 pm

One thing you could do is increase your acceleration for pitch in the down direction. The acceleration curves do not need to be uniform. This way it would require less movement to get the same response...

609IAP_Recon
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2003 5:00 am

Re: My opinion on using Vector

Post by 609IAP_Recon » Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:13 pm

"I have my TrackIR a little over 3 feet away from me on top of my monitor"

3 feet??? wow. no I'm closer than that, I'll try it though.

Also - I have an idea of what causes it, basically that when I'm playing CFS3 and I lean, let's say to the left, I can't "pan" once I'm in lean. So, when I lean, it causes it to stop "panning".

Tell me: why can't I still "pan" my head while leaning? Another option would be to turn off leaning (since it's not used anyway) for games like PF?

609IAP_Recon
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2003 5:00 am

Re: My opinion on using Vector

Post by 609IAP_Recon » Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:51 pm

ok, that really helped, I'll keep testing - much better results for both vector CFS3 and vector PF.

Thanks!

I was so used to my trackir2 needing to be a foot or so away, I had to move the unit back

Combathanger
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 5:00 am

Re: My opinion on using Vector

Post by Combathanger » Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:14 pm

When I saw the image on the view thingy, I could see that the 13" Id used for the DOT wasnt going to work with Vector....its just a big footprint on the screen. So I read the helpfils and it does say 2-3 feet....and that helps TONS. If your too close, even moderate movement will cause one of the reflectors to move out of the FOV. So moving back does help......however:

There is still an issue with the software loosing you and sticking your virtual head on backwards. After a lot of fiddling around Ive found that some careful setup helps greatly.

#1) Move the TIR away to 30"+

#2) When you 'center' it, allow room for looking down without loosing the bottom reflectors. Remember that if your TIR is above you by 15�, you need to wear the hat brim up 15� so the reflectors dont go past an angle they reflect well at when you look down. You cant wear the hat flat if the unit is above your head!

#3) You can recenter a backwards head with wither the center key...or by shaking your head quickly back and forth (no...I dont know why)

JRH147
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 5:00 am

My opinion on using Vector

Post by JRH147 » Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:42 pm

So I flew for several hours last night, both with the Vector turned on and off - here are my feelings about it:

(BTW, I'm not ripping on this product, I love it, this is just my feedback)

There seems to be a Field of View problem (FOV) with the Vector, primarily with Pitch. In other words, I can't look to the extremes, up or down, without losing the tracking of the clip with the TrackIR. Especially when looking down, there is only so much distance, before it loses the bottom two reflectors. My TrackIR sits on top of my monitor.

The difference between Vector and Dot (Dot means without the clip) is huge with PF. There were several times (usually at the worst time - right in the heat of battle online) - when I would lose the ability to look over my shoulder (7 and 5 o' clock). This would usually be remedied by shifting (yaw) my head to the right or left in order to place my three reflectors back into the center of view. This could still be more of a FOV problem, but I'm not sure if it's fixable. In other words, I feel like I have to keep my head even more rigid because now the TrackIR has to track 3 dots - which have to stay within the tracking window at all times - otherwise your in-game head gets really screwed up.

Now, switch back to Dot - and the thing works like a laser. Perfect tracking, ultra smooth, a dream come true. So I know Vector will get there eventually. So I'm not so sure Vector is better with programs that don't actually allow for it.

So on to MSFS 2004:

For this experiment I downloaded the realairsimulations Spitfire IX - so I could have the warbird experience that I love from PF/IL2. (Which, BTW, the Spitfire from them is AWESOME).

Being able to look left and right around the engine cowl was fantastic - especially on landings - I think that'll be the closest I'll ever get to really flying an airplane.

You can pop your head out of the cockpit - I didn't really notice it at first. I thought it was funny that you could look out and see that the bottom half of the airplane was missing - so I figured Oleg knew what he was talking about.

But then I changed the weather to raining and I could see the point at which my head went through the cockpit (because you can see the raindrops) - there are NO missing textures if there was some kind of limiter to how far you could move left or right. I'm sure that's where the resistance is because you'd have to do it individually for each plane - but a general global one would probably work fine.

Looking backwards was another problem all together. Because you can lean forward and back (which again is great for landing) - you can lean back through your seat! All I saw behind me was a purple cube for a tail! And, as I mentioned before, the inverted shifting that happens when you're looking backwards, if you move to the right, your view shifts left. I'm sure this will be fixed eventually.

But I definitely got more seasick with Vector then I did with Dot. This could just be something that needs getting used to - the ability to lean forward I think adds to it. But afterwards, trying to get to sleep, my head was still spinning! (Perhaps this is more like real life, I don't know!) It just seems REALLY sensitive - setting a dead zone didn't work out for me (it would lock into position too quickly) so I'm sure it will take some tweaking, I just found it more difficult to stay locked on to a target or landmark (but again this could just be something that needs getting used to).

So I just wanted to give my 2 cents opinion on the device, I can't wait till we can use this in one of Oleg's games - being able to lean in and read dials or look around the stick to read the compass - truly is fantastic.

[ December 17, 2004, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: JRH147 ]

il2user
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2003 5:00 am

Re: My opinion on using Vector

Post by il2user » Sat Dec 18, 2004 4:39 am

After reading this thread and especially step#2 of previous post, I also moved the TIR unit further away. Now when I'm editing profiles all three dots stay visible inside the tracking view no matter whether I'm looking fully up, down, left or right. Tracking stutters are now almost totally gone from FS2004.

The ability to lean left is very useful during taxiing. I wish we had it in PF...

BM357_TinMan
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:00 am

Re: My opinion on using Vector

Post by BM357_TinMan » Sun Dec 19, 2004 11:13 pm

Ok, this spit is simply amazing. Do you happen to know where I might find a me109 too?

JRH147x
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 5:00 am

Re: My opinion on using Vector

Post by JRH147x » Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:13 am

Yeah - I hope they do a 109...send them a letter, you never know.

OK, so I have to set it back 3 feet - how the heck are you guys finding a place to put that? I've just got my monitor up against the wall - do you put it up on a shelf?

Thanks

oqvist
Posts: 139
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 5:00 am

Re: My opinion on using Vector

Post by oqvist » Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:23 am

don�t know about the 109 but the Wings of Power guys another thing you ww 2 gurus just have to buy. 8 very well modelled ww 2 bombers. It just feels ridiculous flying the IL 2 version of B24 after flying these I can tell you.

That is a must for a very low price. You get 8 airplanes for less than the Spit and there is no trade off in quality except no virtual cabins.

But they are making a P51 too for those who interested.

Otherwise from what I have heard the Realair Spitfire IX is in many ways the benchmark of piston prop addons in FS 2004.

A bit off topic perhaps but look into www.shockingwavesproduction.com

JRH147
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 5:00 am

Re: My opinion on using Vector

Post by JRH147 » Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:57 am

Thanks for the link.

Playing with it some more today, I'm noticing that it gets all wonky when I pitch my head down - my in-game head will flip all over the place. I'm thinking of making a movie to show what exactly I mean - all the other axis's work, but when I look down it starts flipping all over the place and then can't recenter itself. I have to look at the center of the monitor and hit recenter.

Moving it back a foot though did help - but I had to raise it up about 6-8 inches on a shelf above my monitor.

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