Standing on my head

Jim
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Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 5:00 am
Location: Corvallis, Oregon
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Re: Standing on my head

Post by Jim »

Thanks for the feedback. I think your setup sounds reasonable to be sure, so that probably isn't the issue. The Vector math is somehow getting something wrong when it looks at your 3 dots, so it thinks you are upside down. We will look into making this more robust, and as you suggested, the product will mature over the next few months. As a quick fix, I would suggest covering up any reflective dots you may have on your hat, if you are using a NP hat. Check the tracking window and make sure it always finds the 3 dots, that is most likely the problem.
reaper20
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 5:00 am

Re: Standing on my head

Post by reaper20 »

Jim,
Thanks for the response. See my other posts, and e-mail to Eric for more information. I have covered the dot on the track hat, and assured that all 3 reflectors can always be seen. I have been testing briefly in all my other enhanced games, and the "standing on head" results in pitch being fixed at some point, with yaw still working. It seems I have read many posts recounting stories of getting "stuck" in one fashion or another. I think most of these are probably related in origin. My current setup for all games has reduced the problem to only occuring when I look down and pan back and forth. A button on my Cougar HOTAS makes short work of re-centering, but certainly is not the final solution.
Please keep at it. This community can be a harsh and impatient bunch, but TrackIR has already revolutionized the way many of us play, and I suspect smartNAV is a godsend to those who require it's unique offerings. I do imagine a day when the TrackIR is as common as a joystick for gamers, and simulation games not supporting it are rare indeed.
Matt Jones
reaper20
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 5:00 am

Standing on my head

Post by reaper20 »

After many hours of careful adjustment to the location of the TrackIR unit (now at 36" from my head and about 6" above) I have eliminated almost all range of motion/FOV issues. One of the remaining, and very frustrating issues is the units tendancy to suddenly invert the game head. To correct this I need to either re-center, or wiggle my head about. In PF (I am trying to tune the unit to this one game before I move on to Lomac, etc.) this results in the view being stuck looking at the floor (since PF limits the FOV to "real" parameters).
I am wondering, as a potential/temporary fix to this problem, is there a way to program the unit to never place the game head upside down? I have been thinking about this, and I just can't recall a time in real life when I drove/piloted any vehicle standing on my head!
Is this issue related to the problems people are having with mounting the TrackIR unit upside down?
What solutions have others come up with to resolve this issue?
I really cannot imagine the complexity of the math involved in creating Vector expansion, but obviously with increased performance there are increased problems. As PF does not support 6DOF, I could always go back to Dot tracking, but then I would once again be forced to sit so damn still in my chair, not a good trade IMO. Besides, I really am looking forward to more combat sims supporting 6DOF.
As a side note, I realized that with my old TrackIR 2, I coud leave the room, come back, and my view would still be properly centered. This is no longer the case with Vector Expansion. Have I missed a setting here, or is this another issue to be resolved?
Vector Expansion is an incredible piece of work, and I am sure it will only improve over time. My (Track) hat is off to the team at Natural Point. Even if I am "standing on my head"!
Matt Jones
Tailhook
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:00 am

Re: Standing on my head

Post by Tailhook »

I was having this same problem and it seems it was caused my the curve of the bill of my hat.

I straightend out the bill a bit and it seems to have repaired the problem.

Hope that helps!
steku
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 5:00 am
Location: Wroclaw, POLAND

Re: Standing on my head

Post by steku »

I discovered that if you are caught in this "straight down look" condition (after looking at your chart or checklist placed on your lap) and you don't want to recenter using button you have to move your head in such a way that one of dots is no loger visible to TIR. You can move your head to extreme left or right or even better up - at high enough angle the peak of your hat goes between TIR and upper reflector and this reflector is no longer visible to TIR.

Another trick:
As I fly mainly civilian GA high-wing airplanes (like Cessna 177 RG Cardinal) in FS2004 I seldom need to look up (cockpit roof and wing is obstructing my view). So I pointed my TIR down a little (rather subtle movements). In neutral position my dots are in upper half of tracking screen (the same effect can be achieved by pointing peak of the hat a little higher). This way I can look down at my chart and TIR is still able to track all three dots - and no "down view" engages. Another benefit: I can lean outside the cockpit and look straight down (all dots still reflecting light to TIR). I was able to obtain a kind of compromise between my ability to look up and mimimizing occurences ot "down views". Sometimes I'm stuck but up movement required to clear it up is in this configuration rather small.

These are some workarounds but permanent soultion would be welcomed!

Suggestion for Vector Accesory 2.0:
Reflectors should be spherical not cylindrical. This way reflectors will be stil reflecting ligth to TIR even at more extreme angles. Sometimes TIR looses tracking not because reflectors goes out of view but because of their shape.

By the way - I have my original Track Hat reflector covered. And only two red LEDs are illuminating...

[ January 03, 2005, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: steku ]
Wayne
Posts: 891
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 5:00 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Standing on my head

Post by Wayne »

steku,

The problems that you described will most likely be because of the LED's that appear not to be working.

please e-mail me with your details then we can exchange your unit. I believe I answered your post yesterday on your LED's.
steku
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 5:00 am
Location: Wroclaw, POLAND

Re: Standing on my head

Post by steku »

Wayne

I don't think that problem with "standing on head" is caused by faulty LEDs. It's more common and reported by others too. You can do your own test - just start FS2004 in VC, place a chart on your lap then look straight down at it for a couple of seconds. When you return to looking at the screen you will be positioned above your cockpit, looking straight down.

I sent you a mail about non operating LEDs yesterday. No answer. I'll try to resend it today evening with all the serial numbers.

[ January 04, 2005, 01:48 AM: Message edited by: steku ]
Tailhook
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:00 am

Re: Standing on my head

Post by Tailhook »

Steku,

Straighten the bill of your cap. Too much curve of the bill of your hat can disturb the mathematical measurments.
steku
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 5:00 am
Location: Wroclaw, POLAND

Re: Standing on my head

Post by steku »

Tried straightening. No effect. Still "down view" lockups.

Curve of my hat is exactly like the hat of guy starring in Vector commercial movie (by the way - who is this guy?). I think they at NP designed and tested Vector with the exact curve of NP hat.
BM357_TinMan
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:00 am

Re: Standing on my head

Post by BM357_TinMan »

This IS a definite issue.

Happens sometimes in FS2k4 V/C when you look down. The tracking becomes a little crazy and as you try to look further down to make it track further down, it to a straight down view a few inches above regular pov and you must hit re-center to remedy.

Not a problem, that i've noticed, in Pacific Fighters or CFS3.
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