Just Tried Something New Based On What I Have Learned and IT WORKS GREAT…
Instead of bending each reflector I found a better, easier, and cleaner way to get the reflectors aligned with TrackIR3…
• Rather then bending each reflector and taking the chance of damaging the reflective material I found it is easier to simply bend the whole clip mid way between the two front reflectors. Yep, that’s right, bend the whole front of the clip up about 15 – 25 degrees depending on how high your TrackIR3 is setting and how low on the forehead you wear your hat.
Forget about the top, rear, center reflector for the time being as we are going to do something really bold with it.
• Do not clip the Vector Clip onto the hat in the normal way but rather tape it to the TOP of the brim (I used one narrow strip the depth of the brim of Scotch Foam Double-Stick Mounting tape). This provides TWO benefits…
1: The clip stays flat and does not bend with the brim thereby staying better aligned.
2: The clip no longer falls off of the brim or gets misaligned with the brim because it slipped; again, staying in alignment is VERY important.
The Vector Clip mounted on top of the hat looks rather cool and high-tech if I do say so and I know it is going to stay in place.
• Now for the “piece de resistance” (hope I spelled that right)…
- BREAK OFF THE TOP, REAR, CENTER REFLECTOR!
PLEASE READ THIS ENTIRE MESSAGE BEFORE BREAKING OFF THE CENTER REFLECTOR as it may be unnecessary for many users.
- About an inch or so down from the now broken top, apply a very small square of the Scotch Double-Stick Mounting tape.
- Stick the freshly broken off reflector onto the tape.
- Exactly how far down the shaft to mount the now broken off center reflector depends on two things…
1: How high above the three reflectors TrackIR3 is mounted (mine is about 12 inches).
2: How low on the forehead you wear your cap (mine is low).
What is important is the space between the top, rear, center reflector and the two on the brim.
When that space is too great you will get a LOT of sudden flipping upside down of the image (this happens when TrackIR3 is mounted very high and\or you wear your cap very low).
When the space is too narrow you began to loose responsiveness.
The bottom line is… you need some space between the center and front reflectors but it has to be just right for really smooth Vector motion.
With the center rear reflector broken off, you can move it up or down the shaft until you arrive at the perfect position (mine is now about one inch below the original position).
The exact position is correct when after pressing F12 you get an almost equal up/down (pitch) movement of the head (maybe a little more up as you don’t usually need as much down).
NOTE: Check this (F12 and looking up \ down) BEFORE breaking off the rear, center reflector as you may not need to go this far to resolve the sudden flipping upside down problem. Adjusting the reflector angles may be all that you need (that alone helped but did no completely resolve it for me but breaking off the rear, center reflector and moving it down did the trick).
Before I did this I was getting way too much up and no down movement of the head which made it impossible to check any of the lower controls on the instrument panel while flying.
The last thing to do is make sure the angle of the center reflector is on the same exact plane as the front reflectors. You may have to slightly bend the rear, center reflector shaft a little to assure that all three reflectors are looking in the same exact direction.
Now I CAN SEE EVERYTHING with smooth movement all around.
CHEERS.
Doc
Flip upside down - High sensitivity RESOLVED!
Re: Flip upside down - High sensitivity RESOLVED!
Wow. Now that us some user hacking. We really appreciate the level of work that you were willing to go to for Vector to work for you.
You pointed out the most common Vector problems, that the device is placed too close to the clip, should be about 30" or more, and that the clip/hat are not aligned with the unit in a "straight on" manner.
We discussed making convex reflectors like you mention, but they do not look nice at all, it is very hard to form the reflective material to a sphere and have it look good, but we are looking into fixing this for future add-on clips. The tracking is better with a "reflective ball", but in most user setups the supplied clip will work just fine, it really is a question of setup.
On the software front, we are aware of the head flipping problem and we are working to fix that.
One official word of caution. The clips are made of high grade stainless steel and they will bend nicely in some ways, but you can break off the reflectors if you are not careful. This is not covered under warranty. We do not offer replacement clips for sale at this time, so that can be an expensive thing to try. We plan on offering replacement clips in about 60 days. Finally, the software is made to work with very specific reflector locations, it is not advised to move the locations as the profiles will not be the same as other users and the tracking may not be reliable.
Thanks for the detailed post, overall I am just very happy that you found something that works for you and that you can now enjoy your investment!
You pointed out the most common Vector problems, that the device is placed too close to the clip, should be about 30" or more, and that the clip/hat are not aligned with the unit in a "straight on" manner.
We discussed making convex reflectors like you mention, but they do not look nice at all, it is very hard to form the reflective material to a sphere and have it look good, but we are looking into fixing this for future add-on clips. The tracking is better with a "reflective ball", but in most user setups the supplied clip will work just fine, it really is a question of setup.
On the software front, we are aware of the head flipping problem and we are working to fix that.
One official word of caution. The clips are made of high grade stainless steel and they will bend nicely in some ways, but you can break off the reflectors if you are not careful. This is not covered under warranty. We do not offer replacement clips for sale at this time, so that can be an expensive thing to try. We plan on offering replacement clips in about 60 days. Finally, the software is made to work with very specific reflector locations, it is not advised to move the locations as the profiles will not be the same as other users and the tracking may not be reliable.
Thanks for the detailed post, overall I am just very happy that you found something that works for you and that you can now enjoy your investment!
Re: Flip upside down - High sensitivity RESOLVED!
Hi Jim;
Glad to of been of some little assistance; it was fun resolving these issues.
I have noticed that ever since Vector Expansion came out that several users have had similar problems like mine but no one made a detailed explanation of what was really happening or the details of how to resolve them. Forums often provide quick bits and pieces of information and it is sometimes hard for the user to put it all together to resolve specific problems. I just thought I would try to put it all together in one (long) detailed explanation.
When I first got Vector Expansion I tried using it many times but nearly gave up due to the flipping upside down problem.
Now it runs beautifully, very smooth with great control; I am now VERY happy with the product.
It is so neat to be able to slide left or right in a single engine tail dragger to see your way on the taxi strip. It is also wonderful to be able to move my point of view up so I can see over the cockpit for a clear view on landings.
The only thing that bugs me now is that some of my better FS 2004 aircraft don’t have a virtual cockpit to really let me use Vector Expansion on; or, some have a virtual cockpit but of low quality. Oh well, time will take care of that as virtual cockpits become standard on all aircraft. I wish I could add 3D virtual cockpits like I can 2 D cockpits.
Glad to of been of some little assistance; it was fun resolving these issues.
I have noticed that ever since Vector Expansion came out that several users have had similar problems like mine but no one made a detailed explanation of what was really happening or the details of how to resolve them. Forums often provide quick bits and pieces of information and it is sometimes hard for the user to put it all together to resolve specific problems. I just thought I would try to put it all together in one (long) detailed explanation.
When I first got Vector Expansion I tried using it many times but nearly gave up due to the flipping upside down problem.
Now it runs beautifully, very smooth with great control; I am now VERY happy with the product.
It is so neat to be able to slide left or right in a single engine tail dragger to see your way on the taxi strip. It is also wonderful to be able to move my point of view up so I can see over the cockpit for a clear view on landings.
The only thing that bugs me now is that some of my better FS 2004 aircraft don’t have a virtual cockpit to really let me use Vector Expansion on; or, some have a virtual cockpit but of low quality. Oh well, time will take care of that as virtual cockpits become standard on all aircraft. I wish I could add 3D virtual cockpits like I can 2 D cockpits.
Flip upside down - High sensitivity RESOLVED!
I have had two very irritating problems with Vector Expansion...
1: View suddenly flipping upside down.
2: Overly sensitive, not tracking smoothly problem.
Needless to say, Vector Expansion is much more complicated and complex then before Vector and tracking is much more critical.
Going from one dot to three dots really complicates simple issues; things that you used to be able to get away with are now out of the question. Everything must be right on or you will have problems.
Before I took a long, hard look at these problems, I was VERY disappointed with Vector Expansion and thought that I had really wasted my money, but, read on.
The following cleared up all issues for me and now I can attest that Vector Expansion is now a real joy to use. Flying without it is like going back to the days of Flight Simulator 95.
VIEW SUDDENLY FLIPPING UPSIDE DOWN PROBLEM...
I have had the same on-going problem of my view suddenly flipping upside down (in my case always when looking extremely left).
It has to do entirely with the three reflectors on the hat; there is not just one issue here but several that have to be carefully looked at.
The angle of the three reflectors to the TrackIR3 receiver is critical...
* The three reflectors MUST be at exactly the same angle as the TrackIR3 is; that is zero degrees of tilt between the reflectors and TrackIR3.
* If the TrackIR3 is pointing down say 10 degrees (to center the three reflectors in the Tracking Image screen) then the three reflectors must be pointing up 10 degrees to maintain the zero degrees difference between the two.
* In other words, the three reflectors MUST be looking directly at TrackIR3, not slightly above it, not slightly below it, but straight at TrackIR3.
* That means if TrackIR3 is mounted high then the three reflectors MUST be looking high to maintain the zero degrees of tilt between the reflectors and TrackIR3.
* I have a large 24 inch Samsung 243T widescreen monitor which puts the TrackIR3 pretty high up above my normal line of sight when it is mounted on top of the monitor, this will almost always cause a problem with the angle to the three reflectors being too great for reliable Vector Expansion tracking.
* The problem is the three reflectors are pointed straight ahead and level while TrackIR3 is mounted much higher on top of the monitor causing too great an angle between the two.
* The Tracking Image screen will still clearly show the three reflectors but you will experience tracking errors as you turn your head (this may not be apparent on the Tracking Image screen but will still cause tracking problems in your Flight Sim).
* I finally mounted TrackIR3 on the wall behind the monitor, it is now about 12 inches above my normal line of sight. This is simply too great an angle difference between the three reflectors and TrackIR3 for reliable operation.
* I was wearing the hat as I wear most baseball caps, that is, low on my forehead; that caused too great an angle between the three reflectors and the TrackIR3, the results being sudden flipping upside down.
Some simple and not so simple fixes...
There are FOUR fixes for this that you can do and THREE that NaturalPoint should do...
1: Using smooth, flat-nosed pliers, I very carefully bent each of the two front reflectors in a tilted back fashion as far as they would go (the corners of the two front reflectors will end up touching the flat metal clip). Be very careful here as the metal is very stiff and if you do not cover the reflectors with something soft such as a cloth (I used a paper towel double up) you will tear the reflector material. I then tilted the top, center rear reflector back to the same angle as the two front reflectors. This simple fix improved the flipping upside down problem somewhat; it did not happen as often as before but it still happened more then I liked.
2: On to fix number two... simply tilt the cap farther back on your head until you get good reliable tracking. A little experimenting will tell you when the reflectors are pointing directly at TrackIR3.
3: After bending the reflectors back and moving my cap up higher on my head, the flipping upside down problem was almost non-existent.
- But, I still noticed that I could sometimes under certain conditions, cause the sudden upside down flip to occur.
- Looking very carefully at the View Heads and Tracking screens, I noticed that when I turned my head real sharp to the left, one of the reflectors would always suddenly decrease in size as the reflected image fell from the full surface of the reflector to the sharp edge of the reflector. This would always cause weird things to happen.
- It looks to me like that reflectors are not curved enough to prevent the reflected image from suddenly falling away as the head is turned sharply. In other words, there is a very limited angle that the head can be turned before this happens. With the single dot (before Vector) this was not as much an issue as it is now with the slightly curved reflectors. Increasing the gain in the Gauges screen to provide more Flight Sim movement with less actual head movement will also help but will of course cause things to get more sensitive as every little head movement will cause a larger FS movement... just the opposite of what I really wanted.
- I then took my trusty smooth flat-nosed pliers and bent each of the reflectors into a greater arc thereby allowing the flat surface of each reflector to stay pointed at TrackIR3 for a longer time as I turned my head sharply from side to side.
4: The top, rear, center reflector is too high and causes a tracking problem at certain angles. When the hat is worn low on the forehead, the angle between the top center reflector and the two on the brim increase to such a point (they move farther apart) that the image will begin flipping upside down. I taped over the top center reflector and added a new reflector about one inch lower down. This stopped the flipping upside down when the hat is worn low but still works perfectly fine when worn much higher.
What NaturalPoint can do about this problem...
1: The top, rear, center reflector should be moved down about one inch, OR... a software change made to account for the hat being worn low on the forehead.
2: Software needs to be changed to make sure that no sudden flipping of the image can occur.
3: I suggest that most of these problems can be resolved by the use of a different type of reflecto... a Convex reflector (a half ball). This will assure that TrackIR3 will always see three precisely sized images no matter what the angle is... up, down, left, or right. Using convex reflectors would make it almost impossible for the reflected image to suddenly fall off as the head angle is changed sharply. It would also resolve the angle difference between the reflector and TrackIR3 as there would always be three precisely sized reflected images being received by TrackIR3 no matter if the hat is worn low or high on the forehead. NOTE: I actually tried some convex reflectors by taping over the current three reflectors and sticking on three small half-round rubber feet on top of the curved reflectors. I then pressed on three of the large pieces of reflector tape that came with my TrackIR and curved the tape to follow the convex curve of the rubber feet. IT WORKED GREAT. Very good tracking no matter what my hat angle was. The combination of the convex reflectors and moving the top, rear, center reflector down about one inch resolved all issues!
TOUCHINESS, OVERLY SENSITIVE, PROBLEM...
* When TrackIR3 is too close (such as being mounted on top of the monitor) the angle between the reflectors and TrackIR3 receiver is more critical then when TrackIR3 is mounted behind the monitor such as on a wall or other object at least 36 inches back from the reflectors.
* When TrackIR3 is mounted too close, wide head movements will often cause one or more of the reflectors to fall out of the range of the Tracking Image screen with results being very erratic motion of the view in your Flight Sim.
* In my case, TrackIR3 being on the monitor was too close for Vector Expansion so I mounted it on the wall behind the monitor (about 42 inches from the reflectors). This resolved the problem of one or more of the reflectors falling out of the range of the Tracking Image screen as I turned my head.
* Moving TrackIR3 farther back also made tracking smoother as it decreased the sensitivity of head motion. When I had TrackIR3 on top of the monitor I had to have all of the Gauges set to absolute minimum as moving them up any higher simply made all tracking very touchy and overly sensitive. Now I can actually move them up a little which gives me a little more control over my settings.
* Add a Dead Zone to all settings. Before I added a dead zone to my settings, there was constant movement in the view in Flight Sim that was driving me nuts. Just double click on any of the Gauges and drag some of the little blue buttons all the way to the bottom to create the dead zone; how many and how wide a dead zone you need is up to your individual choice. Now when I'm in Flight Sim and I press F12 (to center the image) the view stays locked on and straight ahead until I move my head a certain amount in any direction; when I return my head to straight ahead it returns to a steady non jittery view.
[ January 15, 2005, 12:45 PM: Message edited by: DocLotus ]
1: View suddenly flipping upside down.
2: Overly sensitive, not tracking smoothly problem.
Needless to say, Vector Expansion is much more complicated and complex then before Vector and tracking is much more critical.
Going from one dot to three dots really complicates simple issues; things that you used to be able to get away with are now out of the question. Everything must be right on or you will have problems.
Before I took a long, hard look at these problems, I was VERY disappointed with Vector Expansion and thought that I had really wasted my money, but, read on.
The following cleared up all issues for me and now I can attest that Vector Expansion is now a real joy to use. Flying without it is like going back to the days of Flight Simulator 95.
VIEW SUDDENLY FLIPPING UPSIDE DOWN PROBLEM...
I have had the same on-going problem of my view suddenly flipping upside down (in my case always when looking extremely left).
It has to do entirely with the three reflectors on the hat; there is not just one issue here but several that have to be carefully looked at.
The angle of the three reflectors to the TrackIR3 receiver is critical...
* The three reflectors MUST be at exactly the same angle as the TrackIR3 is; that is zero degrees of tilt between the reflectors and TrackIR3.
* If the TrackIR3 is pointing down say 10 degrees (to center the three reflectors in the Tracking Image screen) then the three reflectors must be pointing up 10 degrees to maintain the zero degrees difference between the two.
* In other words, the three reflectors MUST be looking directly at TrackIR3, not slightly above it, not slightly below it, but straight at TrackIR3.
* That means if TrackIR3 is mounted high then the three reflectors MUST be looking high to maintain the zero degrees of tilt between the reflectors and TrackIR3.
* I have a large 24 inch Samsung 243T widescreen monitor which puts the TrackIR3 pretty high up above my normal line of sight when it is mounted on top of the monitor, this will almost always cause a problem with the angle to the three reflectors being too great for reliable Vector Expansion tracking.
* The problem is the three reflectors are pointed straight ahead and level while TrackIR3 is mounted much higher on top of the monitor causing too great an angle between the two.
* The Tracking Image screen will still clearly show the three reflectors but you will experience tracking errors as you turn your head (this may not be apparent on the Tracking Image screen but will still cause tracking problems in your Flight Sim).
* I finally mounted TrackIR3 on the wall behind the monitor, it is now about 12 inches above my normal line of sight. This is simply too great an angle difference between the three reflectors and TrackIR3 for reliable operation.
* I was wearing the hat as I wear most baseball caps, that is, low on my forehead; that caused too great an angle between the three reflectors and the TrackIR3, the results being sudden flipping upside down.
Some simple and not so simple fixes...
There are FOUR fixes for this that you can do and THREE that NaturalPoint should do...
1: Using smooth, flat-nosed pliers, I very carefully bent each of the two front reflectors in a tilted back fashion as far as they would go (the corners of the two front reflectors will end up touching the flat metal clip). Be very careful here as the metal is very stiff and if you do not cover the reflectors with something soft such as a cloth (I used a paper towel double up) you will tear the reflector material. I then tilted the top, center rear reflector back to the same angle as the two front reflectors. This simple fix improved the flipping upside down problem somewhat; it did not happen as often as before but it still happened more then I liked.
2: On to fix number two... simply tilt the cap farther back on your head until you get good reliable tracking. A little experimenting will tell you when the reflectors are pointing directly at TrackIR3.
3: After bending the reflectors back and moving my cap up higher on my head, the flipping upside down problem was almost non-existent.
- But, I still noticed that I could sometimes under certain conditions, cause the sudden upside down flip to occur.
- Looking very carefully at the View Heads and Tracking screens, I noticed that when I turned my head real sharp to the left, one of the reflectors would always suddenly decrease in size as the reflected image fell from the full surface of the reflector to the sharp edge of the reflector. This would always cause weird things to happen.
- It looks to me like that reflectors are not curved enough to prevent the reflected image from suddenly falling away as the head is turned sharply. In other words, there is a very limited angle that the head can be turned before this happens. With the single dot (before Vector) this was not as much an issue as it is now with the slightly curved reflectors. Increasing the gain in the Gauges screen to provide more Flight Sim movement with less actual head movement will also help but will of course cause things to get more sensitive as every little head movement will cause a larger FS movement... just the opposite of what I really wanted.
- I then took my trusty smooth flat-nosed pliers and bent each of the reflectors into a greater arc thereby allowing the flat surface of each reflector to stay pointed at TrackIR3 for a longer time as I turned my head sharply from side to side.
4: The top, rear, center reflector is too high and causes a tracking problem at certain angles. When the hat is worn low on the forehead, the angle between the top center reflector and the two on the brim increase to such a point (they move farther apart) that the image will begin flipping upside down. I taped over the top center reflector and added a new reflector about one inch lower down. This stopped the flipping upside down when the hat is worn low but still works perfectly fine when worn much higher.
What NaturalPoint can do about this problem...
1: The top, rear, center reflector should be moved down about one inch, OR... a software change made to account for the hat being worn low on the forehead.
2: Software needs to be changed to make sure that no sudden flipping of the image can occur.
3: I suggest that most of these problems can be resolved by the use of a different type of reflecto... a Convex reflector (a half ball). This will assure that TrackIR3 will always see three precisely sized images no matter what the angle is... up, down, left, or right. Using convex reflectors would make it almost impossible for the reflected image to suddenly fall off as the head angle is changed sharply. It would also resolve the angle difference between the reflector and TrackIR3 as there would always be three precisely sized reflected images being received by TrackIR3 no matter if the hat is worn low or high on the forehead. NOTE: I actually tried some convex reflectors by taping over the current three reflectors and sticking on three small half-round rubber feet on top of the curved reflectors. I then pressed on three of the large pieces of reflector tape that came with my TrackIR and curved the tape to follow the convex curve of the rubber feet. IT WORKED GREAT. Very good tracking no matter what my hat angle was. The combination of the convex reflectors and moving the top, rear, center reflector down about one inch resolved all issues!
TOUCHINESS, OVERLY SENSITIVE, PROBLEM...
* When TrackIR3 is too close (such as being mounted on top of the monitor) the angle between the reflectors and TrackIR3 receiver is more critical then when TrackIR3 is mounted behind the monitor such as on a wall or other object at least 36 inches back from the reflectors.
* When TrackIR3 is mounted too close, wide head movements will often cause one or more of the reflectors to fall out of the range of the Tracking Image screen with results being very erratic motion of the view in your Flight Sim.
* In my case, TrackIR3 being on the monitor was too close for Vector Expansion so I mounted it on the wall behind the monitor (about 42 inches from the reflectors). This resolved the problem of one or more of the reflectors falling out of the range of the Tracking Image screen as I turned my head.
* Moving TrackIR3 farther back also made tracking smoother as it decreased the sensitivity of head motion. When I had TrackIR3 on top of the monitor I had to have all of the Gauges set to absolute minimum as moving them up any higher simply made all tracking very touchy and overly sensitive. Now I can actually move them up a little which gives me a little more control over my settings.
* Add a Dead Zone to all settings. Before I added a dead zone to my settings, there was constant movement in the view in Flight Sim that was driving me nuts. Just double click on any of the Gauges and drag some of the little blue buttons all the way to the bottom to create the dead zone; how many and how wide a dead zone you need is up to your individual choice. Now when I'm in Flight Sim and I press F12 (to center the image) the view stays locked on and straight ahead until I move my head a certain amount in any direction; when I return my head to straight ahead it returns to a steady non jittery view.
[ January 15, 2005, 12:45 PM: Message edited by: DocLotus ]
Re: Flip upside down - High sensitivity RESOLVED!
wow well... bending clips, cutting off reflectors very narrow range of useability as far as angles and distance is concerned, talk about "but we are looking into fixing this for future add-on clips", why do I feel like I paid 160+ odd dollars to beta test a product not finished and that will be upgraded in the near future leaving me with something that doesn't exactely work?
As of now I rarely use the vector, I mostly use the trackhat/dot mode because the vector just does not work well at all, I also have a 22" monitor so it's basically impossible to set it head level and 30"s back, wich if you read the online documentation says nothing about that, 30 degrees for optimal field of view and 24" distance for optimal performance now that's suddenly all changed, what is the future story going to be?
As of now I rarely use the vector, I mostly use the trackhat/dot mode because the vector just does not work well at all, I also have a 22" monitor so it's basically impossible to set it head level and 30"s back, wich if you read the online documentation says nothing about that, 30 degrees for optimal field of view and 24" distance for optimal performance now that's suddenly all changed, what is the future story going to be?
Re: Flip upside down - High sensitivity RESOLVED!
Hi Kash;
Yeh, funny how that works, isn’t it?
I have time on my hands (retired) and decided I was not going to be beaten by a piece of hardware (I also build all my own computers).
Do you have a wall behind the monitor? Mine is about 42 inches back and it worked really well for me. Suspect that you can go even farther away if need be; just increase the gain in the Gauges screens by increasing or moving up each item using the Shift Entire Curve buttons. That will compensate for the longer distance. This worked very well for me.
If no wall in front of you then how about one behind you? You can invert the settings in the Flight screen as needed.
Where there is a will, there is a way (someone said that once).
Just remember that the ideal (but usually impossible) setup is to have TrackIR3 directly in front of you at reflector level. But in the real world the monitor is setting at that location and TrackIR3 has to usually be placed at a higher location to clear the top of the monitor, that means that if you wear your hat low on the forehead the reflectors will not be pointing directly at TrackIR3 (an absolute must for proper tracking) so some compensations need to be made. Often, it is as simple as tilting the hat back to get the reflectors pointing directly at TrackIR3 with zero degrees difference of angle between the two.
Basically it now looks to me to be a rather simple 3 step process to get vector tracking correctly after you have installed the software…
1: Move TrackIR3 farther back (30 inches minimum, more is better).
2: Adjust the angle of the hat for best tracking, hat low on the forehead is bad (unless TrackIR3 is directly in front of you at eye level).
3: Adjust the hat angle until pressing F12 (center) allows you to look both up and down. If you can look up but not down or only a little down, the hat is too low on your forehead. When you can look both up and down without any problems than the reflectors are pointing directly at TrackIR3 which is crucial for good operation.
As I mentioned in my rather lengthy analysis of setting up TrackIR3\reflectors combination, I was initially really turned off with all of the erratic movement, and the sudden flipping upside down and was about to totally give up on the product. But now that I have a much better understanding of what exactly is going on (and was able to completely resolve all problems) I am now VERY happy with Vector Expansion and will never go back to using TrackIR3 without it.
I had also thought that adding four more axis to TrackIR3 would mean adding that much more erratic, jerky motions to my flying but I must say that now that I really understand the problems, that Vector Expansion is more stable and smoother them before using the single dot with only two axis.
What I have learned would have helped provide soother viewing with the single reflector as well.
It is real [pleasure flying and to be able to slide over to the left of right to look ahead out of the side of the cockpit (great for those tail draggers on the taxi way). It is also wonderful to move my point of view up to see over the cockpit for landings and takeoffs.
Don’t give up; the reward is great flying indeed.
Yeh, funny how that works, isn’t it?
I have time on my hands (retired) and decided I was not going to be beaten by a piece of hardware (I also build all my own computers).
Do you have a wall behind the monitor? Mine is about 42 inches back and it worked really well for me. Suspect that you can go even farther away if need be; just increase the gain in the Gauges screens by increasing or moving up each item using the Shift Entire Curve buttons. That will compensate for the longer distance. This worked very well for me.
If no wall in front of you then how about one behind you? You can invert the settings in the Flight screen as needed.
Where there is a will, there is a way (someone said that once).
Just remember that the ideal (but usually impossible) setup is to have TrackIR3 directly in front of you at reflector level. But in the real world the monitor is setting at that location and TrackIR3 has to usually be placed at a higher location to clear the top of the monitor, that means that if you wear your hat low on the forehead the reflectors will not be pointing directly at TrackIR3 (an absolute must for proper tracking) so some compensations need to be made. Often, it is as simple as tilting the hat back to get the reflectors pointing directly at TrackIR3 with zero degrees difference of angle between the two.
Basically it now looks to me to be a rather simple 3 step process to get vector tracking correctly after you have installed the software…
1: Move TrackIR3 farther back (30 inches minimum, more is better).
2: Adjust the angle of the hat for best tracking, hat low on the forehead is bad (unless TrackIR3 is directly in front of you at eye level).
3: Adjust the hat angle until pressing F12 (center) allows you to look both up and down. If you can look up but not down or only a little down, the hat is too low on your forehead. When you can look both up and down without any problems than the reflectors are pointing directly at TrackIR3 which is crucial for good operation.
As I mentioned in my rather lengthy analysis of setting up TrackIR3\reflectors combination, I was initially really turned off with all of the erratic movement, and the sudden flipping upside down and was about to totally give up on the product. But now that I have a much better understanding of what exactly is going on (and was able to completely resolve all problems) I am now VERY happy with Vector Expansion and will never go back to using TrackIR3 without it.
I had also thought that adding four more axis to TrackIR3 would mean adding that much more erratic, jerky motions to my flying but I must say that now that I really understand the problems, that Vector Expansion is more stable and smoother them before using the single dot with only two axis.
What I have learned would have helped provide soother viewing with the single reflector as well.
It is real [pleasure flying and to be able to slide over to the left of right to look ahead out of the side of the cockpit (great for those tail draggers on the taxi way). It is also wonderful to move my point of view up to see over the cockpit for landings and takeoffs.
Don’t give up; the reward is great flying indeed.
Re: Flip upside down - High sensitivity RESOLVED!
unfortunately it's a 22" CRT, it's huge, so moving it back is out because then the top of the monitor blocks the angle down, if you know what I mean. I had thought about mounting it on a wall behind it but I'd have to have a much greater angle and it would be alot higher over my head, as of now it's about an arms length away on top of the monitot.
Re: Flip upside down - High sensitivity RESOLVED!
Hello:
We feel strongly that Vector is a great product and that the unit / clip arrangement works for most all users. We know that we can't anticipate everyones setup, so we have to choose what will be the most common, and we have done that with this product.
Remember, you are paying for a lot more than a metal clip when you purchase Vector, you are buying a lot of software functionality that took a very long time to develop. We will continue to develop improvements to the technology and that will benefit everyone, whether it is software updates or new clips.
Vector is a totally new concept at the consumer level. Never before have full 6DOF optical trackers been available at this price point with these specifications, it really is the leading edge. We also are pioneering direct 6DOF view support in TrackIR Enhanced titles, this is also something brand new and revolutionary. The technology will continue to evolve and we will be pushing it forward as much as we can, it is our job.
We feel strongly that Vector is a great product and that the unit / clip arrangement works for most all users. We know that we can't anticipate everyones setup, so we have to choose what will be the most common, and we have done that with this product.
Remember, you are paying for a lot more than a metal clip when you purchase Vector, you are buying a lot of software functionality that took a very long time to develop. We will continue to develop improvements to the technology and that will benefit everyone, whether it is software updates or new clips.
Vector is a totally new concept at the consumer level. Never before have full 6DOF optical trackers been available at this price point with these specifications, it really is the leading edge. We also are pioneering direct 6DOF view support in TrackIR Enhanced titles, this is also something brand new and revolutionary. The technology will continue to evolve and we will be pushing it forward as much as we can, it is our job.
Re: Flip upside down - High sensitivity RESOLVED!
I'm not trying to start a "flame"
war here or harsh on the product just curious at the official response to this guys modifications to his product that involved cutting the thing apart and bending it to get it to work while you acknowledged problems with it yourself it leaves me wondering if I'll ever be able to get it to work properly and your own manual states
"Distance between the TrackIR and the user :
The optimum distance between the user and the TrackIR in Dot tracking mode is 18-24 inches, in Vector tracking mode the optimum distance is 24-36 inches. Using the TrackIR within these ranges will achieve the best balance between range of motion and tracking precision. We recommend having no more than 4 feet between the reflective target and the front of the TrackIR. "
it's atleast 24 inches from my head and not more than a foot above and with no more than a 30 degree angle, now that's not good enough any longer, if this a software driver issue that's fine but if it means I'm going to have to get out tin snips and cut stuff up or potentially shell out more cash later for a newer, better clip I'm not so sure
war here or harsh on the product just curious at the official response to this guys modifications to his product that involved cutting the thing apart and bending it to get it to work while you acknowledged problems with it yourself it leaves me wondering if I'll ever be able to get it to work properly and your own manual states
"Distance between the TrackIR and the user :
The optimum distance between the user and the TrackIR in Dot tracking mode is 18-24 inches, in Vector tracking mode the optimum distance is 24-36 inches. Using the TrackIR within these ranges will achieve the best balance between range of motion and tracking precision. We recommend having no more than 4 feet between the reflective target and the front of the TrackIR. "
it's atleast 24 inches from my head and not more than a foot above and with no more than a 30 degree angle, now that's not good enough any longer, if this a software driver issue that's fine but if it means I'm going to have to get out tin snips and cut stuff up or potentially shell out more cash later for a newer, better clip I'm not so sure
Re: Flip upside down - High sensitivity RESOLVED!
Hi Kash;
My monitor is a 24 incher and I have TrackIR3 mounterd pretty high; it is 29 inches above my desktop and 42 inches back from my eyes\reflectors.
Due to the higher then normal mounting position, I too was having all kinds of problems like the sudden flipping upside down and often jerky movement.
Almost all of the problems were resolved simply by moving TrackIR3 farther back (42 inches) and tilting the cap back farther on my head so the reflectors would align up with TrackIR3 receivers.
I made the modifications to the clip only because I want to continue wearing the cap as I usually do and not tilted back.
I then added dead zones to all of the Gauges and that took care of the remaining jerkiness.
I now have a smooth, well behaved unit that is a real joy to use; in fact, I am amazed at just how smooth it is.
I really believe your current problems can be worked out with a little effort.
My monitor is a 24 incher and I have TrackIR3 mounterd pretty high; it is 29 inches above my desktop and 42 inches back from my eyes\reflectors.
Due to the higher then normal mounting position, I too was having all kinds of problems like the sudden flipping upside down and often jerky movement.
Almost all of the problems were resolved simply by moving TrackIR3 farther back (42 inches) and tilting the cap back farther on my head so the reflectors would align up with TrackIR3 receivers.
I made the modifications to the clip only because I want to continue wearing the cap as I usually do and not tilted back.
I then added dead zones to all of the Gauges and that took care of the remaining jerkiness.
I now have a smooth, well behaved unit that is a real joy to use; in fact, I am amazed at just how smooth it is.
I really believe your current problems can be worked out with a little effort.