Big problem with combat sims -

Cas141
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 5:00 am

Re: Big problem with combat sims -

Post by Cas141 » Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:34 pm

quote:Originally posted by NaturalPoint - Rick:
quote:Originally posted by Cas141:
Yes, I have turned the hat round and i use the profile with the dot and not the vector expansion, ie like the old trackir before 6DOF.
There is no doubt Rick that shooting in trackir, like it used to be, is better than shooting in 6DOF.

What would be ideal is a button to hit so that just before shooting starts you can hit a joystick button, which takes you from 6DOF to what Borton and I are now using.

Can that not be programmed in future software, or is the three points on the front of the hat a problem for "old" style trackIR?

cheersSo basically you would want a button that disables all axes except YAW and PITCH? And once those are disabled, center them?Rick S! - the profile I am now using has only yaw and pitch axes as active and in Tracking type the "dot" is checked as opposed to the "vector".
With it like that I can look and also shoot OK.
Centreing as well may be a bonus !

But I use the set up like this at the moment by having the hat turned round so that there is only one spot of reflection. If the hat is worn as normal there are three, of course.
And naturally, swapping from "vector" to "dot" via this button, menas doing so with the hat worn normally ( ie 3 spots of reflection ) -
Is this not a problem?
It would be great if you could do it.
And thanks for the prompt response to this query we have brought up. It is appreciated.

Chef-Scott
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:00 am

Re: Big problem with combat sims -

Post by Chef-Scott » Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:40 am

Granted, I'm not the programming expert here, but... This to me seems to be a problem with the game software and not with the TrackIR software.

borton
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 5:00 am
Location: England

Re: Big problem with combat sims -

Post by borton » Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:57 am

quote: Granted, I'm not the programming expert here, but... This to me seems to be a problem with the game software and not with the TrackIR software.Whilst accepting that this is a possibilty, what are your grounds for claiming this?

[ February 18, 2006, 07:58 AM: Message edited by: borton ]

Chef-Scott
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:00 am

Re: Big problem with combat sims -

Post by Chef-Scott » Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:54 am

quote:Originally posted by borton:
Whilst accepting that this is a possibilty, what are your grounds for claiming this?BOBII has a lot of known bugs and problems. CFS3 is a M$ product. And these are the only two games I hear of people having a lot of problems with TrackIR. IL-2 had a FPS loss issue and that has been resolved with the latest patch 4.03 (granted it is only 2DOF but I run 6DOF with IL-2 for ease of movement).

rodom
Posts: 581
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:00 am
Location: Philomath, OR

Re: Big problem with combat sims -

Post by rodom » Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:42 am

quote:Originally posted by Cas141:
quote:Originally posted by NaturalPoint - Rick:
quote:Originally posted by Cas141:
Yes, I have turned the hat round and i use the profile with the dot and not the vector expansion, ie like the old trackir before 6DOF.
There is no doubt Rick that shooting in trackir, like it used to be, is better than shooting in 6DOF.

What would be ideal is a button to hit so that just before shooting starts you can hit a joystick button, which takes you from 6DOF to what Borton and I are now using.

Can that not be programmed in future software, or is the three points on the front of the hat a problem for "old" style trackIR?

cheersSo basically you would want a button that disables all axes except YAW and PITCH? And once those are disabled, center them?Rick S! - the profile I am now using has only yaw and pitch axes as active and in Tracking type the "dot" is checked as opposed to the "vector".
With it like that I can look and also shoot OK.
Centreing as well may be a bonus !

But I use the set up like this at the moment by having the hat turned round so that there is only one spot of reflection. If the hat is worn as normal there are three, of course.
And naturally, swapping from "vector" to "dot" via this button, menas doing so with the hat worn normally ( ie 3 spots of reflection ) -
Is this not a problem?
It would be great if you could do it.
And thanks for the prompt response to this query we have brought up. It is appreciated.So you would want to have an option to switch the current profile from Vector to Dot mode on the fly and vise versa? I think that can be done pretty easily.

borton
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 5:00 am
Location: England

Re: Big problem with combat sims -

Post by borton » Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:09 pm

quote: So you would want to have an option to switch the current profile from Vector to Dot mode on the fly and vise versa? I think that can be done pretty easily. Yes, please!

BTW How does the Quote system work on these fora? It is not the same as most other ones, e.g. Shockwave, SimHq. I can find no references in your FAQs or anywhere else.

refields
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:00 am

Re: Big problem with combat sims -

Post by refields » Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:38 pm

Chef-Scott:

Actually in real life the reflector gunsights would compensate for head position. It was an optical thing and the gunsight was projected out in space in front of the plane in the correct position. If you moved your head to the extreme, you simply wouldn't see the gunsight. Move your head in a little and you would see it - in its correct position. It might be clipped by the edge of the gunsight but it would still be in the correct position. It's like moving your head around in the cockpit and looking at a plane in front of you. Moving your head doesn't change the position of the plane.

If the 6 DOF thing is causing you to miss shots because it misplaces the gunsight, it's really the sim that's not properly simulating a reflector gunsight. (Ring and bead a different story) However, you are right that one solution is to center the view. It's not the "correct" solution, but it's a solution.

The correct solution is for the sim programmers to properly simulate a reflector gunsight. Now that would be trick!

quote:Originally posted by Chef-Scott:
quote:Originally posted by Cas141:
It seems 6DOF misaligns the sims' gunsights.
Sort of like real life then huh? Think about it. In real life you shift to the extreme left of the cockpit, your gunsight is now on the right, shift to the extreme right and it is now on the left. Lean too far forward and the gunsight is not centered properly with the "line of fire", same happens when you lean back. The gunsight is in a fixed position, it does not move around with you.
Just my take on this.

refields
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:00 am

Re: Big problem with combat sims -

Post by refields » Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:33 pm

Here are four pages from actuall WWII manuals that illustrate what I was trying to describe in the previous message:



Discussion and more graphics:

Page 1

Page 2

Page 3

[ February 26, 2006, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: 475th_Grumps ]

von Baur
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 5:00 am

Re: Big problem with combat sims -

Post by von Baur » Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:39 am

That sounds like the most likely explanation, Grumps. I only have one combat title (CFS3/OFF) that takes advantage of 6dof (well, 5dof anyway), but adjusting my head position to line up the iron sights of the WWI planes works great and the bullets go exactly where one would expect them to. Plus it 'feels' more realistic. I can't wait until Richtofen's Skies (my main game, at this point) moves up to it.

I have noticed, and this is true with flight simulators that aren't compatible with 6dof as well, that I sometimes have to recenter my view. I came to realize, though, that it was because I was shifting in my chair as I played. The fact that I used a swiveling chair that has wheels just makes matters worse. I changed to a straight-back wooden chair when I'm 'flying' and place the chairback between my shoulder blades before centering my view. Since I started doing that I haven't had any trouble with TIR 'wandering off-center'.

borton
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 5:00 am
Location: England

Re: Big problem with combat sims -

Post by borton » Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:55 pm

So what happens next?

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