Big problem with combat sims -

refields
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:00 am

Re: Big problem with combat sims -

Post by refields » Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:31 am

If you want, you could forward those explanation pages to the sim software publishers and help them make their sims more realistic.

This isn't NaturalPoint's problem and is basically impossible for them to fix. All they do is track your hrad. It's up to the sim software guys to use that information properly.

DickDastardly
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:00 am
Location: Birmingham, UK

Re: Big problem with combat sims -

Post by DickDastardly » Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:08 am

quote:Originally posted by NaturalPoint - Rick:
So basically you would want a button that disables all axes except YAW and PITCH? And once those are disabled, center them?Actually, the ideal implementation would be a button that disabled all axis except yaw, pitch AND Z-translation, and then centred the disabled axis. (Perhaps you could call it Aiming or Combat Mode).

Because of the lack of this feature in the current software, I never use the other axis when playing a combat sim - the benefit of being able to move your head to see around a strut in your canopy is nowhere near enough to compensate for the huge reduction in aiming accuracy - even a very small translation of the virtual head from the centre (a matter of cm or even mm for your real head) can make your shot miss by several metres.

I suspect that the addition of this mode would also help encourage developers to add support for more than 2DOF in their games. I know, for example, that Oleg Maddox cited the issue of problems when aiming with 6DOF on the Ubi forums in response to pleas for their addition to FB/AEP/PF, and I imagine it was also one of the reasons LOMAC:FC only supports 3DOF.
Cheers,
DD

P.S. To those who are saying it should be up to the sim developers to fix this issue: I agree the ideal solution would be for all the developers to draw reflected gunsights and HUDS at the appropriate depth but the simple fact of the matter is that very few do, which is why the proposed "Combat mode" or something like it is so necessary.

I often use 3D shutter glasses when simming and with these you can see that it's extremely rare for reflector sights to be drawn correctly (generally they're drawn as if they were painted on the glass of the sight or at screen depth). In fact, the only game I can think of, off the top of my head, which gets it right is IL2:FB (which unfortunately only supports 2DOF).

[ July 07, 2006, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: DickDastardly ]

DickDastardly
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:00 am
Location: Birmingham, UK

Re: Big problem with combat sims -

Post by DickDastardly » Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:59 am

Forgot to mention that when the axis which are disabled are centred (upon engaging "combat mode"), the centring should be temporary and should not overwrite the centre position which TrackIR is storing from when the main TrackIR centre button was last pressed.

This is so that engaging and disengaging combat mode when your real head is not centred will not result in a new non-central centre point being used afterwards.

Cheers,
DD

BM357_TinMan
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:00 am

Re: Big problem with combat sims -

Post by BM357_TinMan » Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:16 am

This is a problem with the combat sim in question.

These were reflective reticle sights and, unless you were looking straight down the sight, you didn't see the reticle.

Combat flight sims need to model this effect correctly.

This is NOT natural points problem.

DickDastardly
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:00 am
Location: Birmingham, UK

Re: Big problem with combat sims -

Post by DickDastardly » Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:51 am

quote:Originally posted by BM357_TinMan:
This is a problem with the combat sim in question.

These were reflective reticle sights and, unless you were looking straight down the sight, you didn't see the reticle.

Combat flight sims need to model this effect correctly.

This is NOT natural points problem."The combat sim in question" is actually the majority of combat sims as most of them don't draw reflector sights correctly. I agree the ideal solution would be for Naturalpoint to contact the developers of all combat sims and persuade them to make the necessary fixes, but given that the changes would only benefit the small proportion of sim flyers who use either 3D glasses or a headtracker, the developers are extremely unlikely to oblige.

This IS NaturalPoint's problem because any of their customers using 6DOF in a combat sim are likely to be far less accurate when firing than they would have been when only using 2 or 3DOF. Until such a time as all combat sims incorporate correctly drawn sights, something like the proposed "combat mode" in the TrackIR software is badly needed.
Cheers,
DD

Cas141
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 5:00 am

Re: Big problem with combat sims -

Post by Cas141 » Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:45 pm

So, trackir - Is the simple fix able to be put in the build of the new alpha drivers? i.e press a button and toggle into 2DOF mode while firing ?
Would be nice! - Progress seems to have come to a grinding halt .
cheers

VincentG
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Location: Corvallis, Oregon

Re: Big problem with combat sims -

Post by VincentG » Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:36 am

It hasn't been implimented in the current software build, but is on the list of future features.

borton
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 5:00 am
Location: England

Re: Big problem with combat sims -

Post by borton » Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:57 am

Sorry, has it been integrated with the latest software release?

If not, when do you intend to do it as I will not upgrade to TIR4 until you do.

VincentG
Posts: 7728
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:00 am
Location: Corvallis, Oregon

Re: Big problem with combat sims -

Post by VincentG » Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:46 am

The ability to switch between 6DOF and 2DOF with a button push has not been added to the build 29 version of the software.

As for the off-center gun sight issue in Combat Sims, the issue in Battle of Britain 2: Wings of Victory has been remedied in the latest patch that the developer just released.

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