I know you guys would probably like a moratorium on this issue, however I made the "mistake" of upgrading my system to Windows 7 when it came out. Having done that my initial investment into my TrackIR 2 (Not Cheap) is now out the window and I am pretty much being forced into buying new equipment.
Since you guys have left some of us hanging out to dry on this issue, as I am in Oregon, can I come down to your offices and give you your product back? Do you want it? I have no use for it anymore sadly.
Frankly this is really frustrating as I think most of us who are still using the TrackIR 2 are doing so because we can't afford the upgrade. So the solution is the problem.
I understand tech changes, but your equipment has never been cheap, and I am perfectly happy with the abilities of my TrackIR2 at least until I had the audacity to upgrade to Win7. I have been flying IL2 for years, now I cannot, at least not at the same level as I did when I purchased your product.
The choice is yours how you chose to support your customers, however I would have expected more from a local home grown American company, at least to those who supported you initially by buying your early products. After all, had we not purchased your very expensive early models, you wouldn't be in the position you find yourselves today.
Anyway, my sticks sit idle on my desk, and my teammates have lost a wing-man, that is until I can come up with the funds to purchase one of your new products, and in this economy hopefully for you that will be very soon.....
Pat
Dear NaturalPoint
Re: Dear NaturalPoint
Dear Pat,
Thank you for your feedback, good or bad, we do like to hear from our customers.
Unfortunately, in regards to the TrackIR 2, and Windows 7 goes, there are several issues to contend with.
The hardware itself has not been in active production, since early 2004.
The software for it was last in active development, in December of 2004.
The device itself should still continue to function for the applications/OS that it was designed for, but as you stated there are updates to applications and operating systems.
Windows 7 itself does require specific driver creation/development steps to be taken, and as I listed earlier, IR 2 compatible software is just not under current development.
Once again I do appreciate your feedback.
Thank you for your feedback, good or bad, we do like to hear from our customers.
Unfortunately, in regards to the TrackIR 2, and Windows 7 goes, there are several issues to contend with.
The hardware itself has not been in active production, since early 2004.
The software for it was last in active development, in December of 2004.
The device itself should still continue to function for the applications/OS that it was designed for, but as you stated there are updates to applications and operating systems.
Windows 7 itself does require specific driver creation/development steps to be taken, and as I listed earlier, IR 2 compatible software is just not under current development.
Once again I do appreciate your feedback.
Re: Dear NaturalPoint
I'm glad you appreciate me, though I would contend that actions speak much louder then words.
Again your products have never been cheap, and again I understand that it costs money for NaturalPoint to develop drivers; However I can tell you I have a Dell Insperion Notebook from 2002, a Gateway Notebook 2002, and a computer I built myself in 1998 all of which are currently running Win7. Just my old ass computer alone had hardware from 6 different companies including Asus, AMD, Radeon, Western Digital, SoundBlaster, and Lite-scribe, all of which have far outmatched your companies ability to keep there products moderately viable.
Here is the sad thing though... Gateway, who in my opinion is one of the worst companies at keeping things up to date has managed to make that old crappy notebook running.
The Asus Mobo, the Radeon GFX card, the Soundblaster Card, and the CD-ROM, all cost less then your TrackIR 2. Only the Western Digital HD and AMD processor cost more, and yet they still work.
If those companies can keep their drivers up to date why cant you?
If you are going to chose to discontinue product and support for that product, you might want to go with a pricing model that will fit that reputation.
Just by looking over the TrackIR 2 support forums the posts regarding Win7 have over a thousand views..... What does that say about this issue?
perhaps your company should do more then just appreciate my opinion, and actually do something about this.
Here are some suggestions:
A. You could do what most reputable companies do and maintain driver support for the products you sell.
B. You could offer those of us who purchased a TrackIR 2 and have since lost our ability to use them a discount on your current products.
C. Ignore us and go about your business because you hold all the cards and you don't have to do anything about this situation.
You say the product was an active product in early 2004 and you discontinued driver support in late 2004, if Nvidia did that they would go out of business.. Luckily for NaturalPoint you have no competition so you can treat us anyway you like. I guess I just expected more.
Again your products have never been cheap, and again I understand that it costs money for NaturalPoint to develop drivers; However I can tell you I have a Dell Insperion Notebook from 2002, a Gateway Notebook 2002, and a computer I built myself in 1998 all of which are currently running Win7. Just my old ass computer alone had hardware from 6 different companies including Asus, AMD, Radeon, Western Digital, SoundBlaster, and Lite-scribe, all of which have far outmatched your companies ability to keep there products moderately viable.
Here is the sad thing though... Gateway, who in my opinion is one of the worst companies at keeping things up to date has managed to make that old crappy notebook running.
The Asus Mobo, the Radeon GFX card, the Soundblaster Card, and the CD-ROM, all cost less then your TrackIR 2. Only the Western Digital HD and AMD processor cost more, and yet they still work.
If those companies can keep their drivers up to date why cant you?
If you are going to chose to discontinue product and support for that product, you might want to go with a pricing model that will fit that reputation.
Just by looking over the TrackIR 2 support forums the posts regarding Win7 have over a thousand views..... What does that say about this issue?
perhaps your company should do more then just appreciate my opinion, and actually do something about this.
Here are some suggestions:
A. You could do what most reputable companies do and maintain driver support for the products you sell.
B. You could offer those of us who purchased a TrackIR 2 and have since lost our ability to use them a discount on your current products.
C. Ignore us and go about your business because you hold all the cards and you don't have to do anything about this situation.
You say the product was an active product in early 2004 and you discontinued driver support in late 2004, if Nvidia did that they would go out of business.. Luckily for NaturalPoint you have no competition so you can treat us anyway you like. I guess I just expected more.
-
Seth Steiling
- Posts: 1365
- Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:29 am
- Location: Corvallis, Oregon
Re: Dear NaturalPoint
Hi Pat,
As Vincent mentioned, there are many issues at play here--certainly more than just a decision to upgrade drivers. A key element to consider is that TrackIR products are more than hardware + drivers. The software component is exceptionally important, with much of the motion tracking and scaling computation taking place within the app. Accordingly, you cannot separate the TrackIR camera from its software interface.
This means that distilling the TrackIR 2/Win7 situation down to driver support offers an incomplete picture.
When we're ready to develop a new product, we typically have had a long list of new features and even new technical approaches that we want to integrate. The scope of our backend revamps has been sizable enough that we've had the need to completely rework the software several times. (Because, as you mention, head tracking for gaming is not a saturated market, we're the only company that's been improving the tech over the past 10 years. This results in major software overhauls every so often, as we discover better ways to provide fast, accurate, lightweight tracking.) Every point that we branch off into another software interface (every few years or so), it complexifies the prospect of continuing development on all of them simultaneously. Development, QA, and support of a single app is a tricky enough project. Doing so for several is monumentally harder, and almost guarantees that a team of our size will be unable to provide a satisfying product. So, in 2004, it became clear to us that our new tech (while potentially similar looking to outside viewers) was too diverged from the then-existing product line to be integrated into the same interface. There needed to be a break, if we were going to progress. That's what happened, and the result is a quality of head tracking that is significantly improved.
So, to summarize: Unlike the examples you've given -- products that are nearly completely hardware oriented with built-in Windows control mechanisms -- we're not faced with the simple task of updating a driver. Rather, we have to consider the complex challenge of continuing support on multiple software applications across multiple operating systems.
I know that all of this doesn't make it any less difficult for you if you're feeling forced to upgrade. I do understand that. But, I do hope that at the least it sheds some light on the decisions we've had to make over the years, and why we've made them. Our policy is not one of designed obsolescence. Rather, when we've felt it necessary to advance TrackIR's capabilities, we have needed to occasionally leave outdated technology behind and start with a clean slate.
As Vincent mentioned, there are many issues at play here--certainly more than just a decision to upgrade drivers. A key element to consider is that TrackIR products are more than hardware + drivers. The software component is exceptionally important, with much of the motion tracking and scaling computation taking place within the app. Accordingly, you cannot separate the TrackIR camera from its software interface.
This means that distilling the TrackIR 2/Win7 situation down to driver support offers an incomplete picture.
When we're ready to develop a new product, we typically have had a long list of new features and even new technical approaches that we want to integrate. The scope of our backend revamps has been sizable enough that we've had the need to completely rework the software several times. (Because, as you mention, head tracking for gaming is not a saturated market, we're the only company that's been improving the tech over the past 10 years. This results in major software overhauls every so often, as we discover better ways to provide fast, accurate, lightweight tracking.) Every point that we branch off into another software interface (every few years or so), it complexifies the prospect of continuing development on all of them simultaneously. Development, QA, and support of a single app is a tricky enough project. Doing so for several is monumentally harder, and almost guarantees that a team of our size will be unable to provide a satisfying product. So, in 2004, it became clear to us that our new tech (while potentially similar looking to outside viewers) was too diverged from the then-existing product line to be integrated into the same interface. There needed to be a break, if we were going to progress. That's what happened, and the result is a quality of head tracking that is significantly improved.
So, to summarize: Unlike the examples you've given -- products that are nearly completely hardware oriented with built-in Windows control mechanisms -- we're not faced with the simple task of updating a driver. Rather, we have to consider the complex challenge of continuing support on multiple software applications across multiple operating systems.
I know that all of this doesn't make it any less difficult for you if you're feeling forced to upgrade. I do understand that. But, I do hope that at the least it sheds some light on the decisions we've had to make over the years, and why we've made them. Our policy is not one of designed obsolescence. Rather, when we've felt it necessary to advance TrackIR's capabilities, we have needed to occasionally leave outdated technology behind and start with a clean slate.
Marketing Manager
TrackIR | OptiTrack
TrackIR | OptiTrack