Potential buyer - power user; specific intended usage

This is the place for comments, criticisms and even the occasional compliment related to the SmartNav drivers and profiler. Also the place to discuss and review support issues.
navquestions
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:23 pm

Potential buyer - power user; specific intended usage

Post by navquestions »

Hi everyone,

I have read a number of positive reviews and a few cons but am still left wondering if the Smartnav with foot pedals will meet my specific needs for work. I know the product would work well for my home use.

I have severe RSI in both wrists and intend on using Dragon + a hands-free mouse to be able to work. I work in software QA and require a great deal of precision and speed in mousing. Here are some of my questions:

1- Will clicking on tiny buttons in the application being tested be feasible? Will I be able to go through a series of small buttons quickly? From what I understand, small targets present a problem even after some training.

2- If I get two foot pedals, can I keep my feet on them and simply apply pressure when needed? I would need to click incessantly so moving feet on and off, or hovering, aren't great options.

3- Can I click fast with the pedals? I've read that they are sticky and slow. I would need to perform frequent double clicks and often more (ex. clicking 15 times on an arrow button).

4- Will my neck hurt if I am using it for 8 hours a day? I would be doing a huge/constant amount of mousing and clicking. Very little stop & read, etc.

5- Would I be better off with a NoHands Mouse?

Input from users with similar usage and needs much appreciated!
Birch
Posts: 1139
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 5:00 am
Location: Corvallis, Oregon

Re: Potential buyer - power user; specific intended usage

Post by Birch »

1. There are a number of features designed to make clicking on small targets and Windows UI elements easier. If needed you can also increase the size of many UI elements in Windows by using the accessibility wizard.

Key Activated + Click On Release :
http://www.naturalpoint.com/smartnav/su ... ml#h-3.1.4
http://www.naturalpoint.com/smartnav/su ... ml#h-4.2.4

Precision Mode :
http://www.naturalpoint.com/smartnav/su ... ml#h-4.2.4

Gravity :
http://www.naturalpoint.com/smartnav/su ... ml#h-4.2.5

Also see this thread regarding resolution :
http://forum.naturalpoint.com/forum/ubb ... umber=2660


2. Yes, there is enough resistance in the foot pedals so its possible to rest your feet on them and then apply pressure to click. The amount of exertion required to click can be adjusted by how close your heel is to the front of the foot switch, think of it like adjusting a lever arm.


3. It should be possible to click relatively fast with the foot switches. You can decrease the exertion to click by altering your foot position if you need to make it easier to click more rapidly. You could also consider a large hand-operated switch if you want something with more precise control.


4. You should be ok as long as you remember to relax while operating the SmartNav. As with any new pointing device, there will also be a period of time where you're body and mind are both acclimating to using it.

Tips on use :
http://www.naturalpoint.com/smartnav/su ... ml#h-3.1.4

Comments by other customers :
http://forum.naturalpoint.com/forum/ubb ... #Post36664

http://forum.naturalpoint.com/forum/ubb ... #Post33771
navquestions
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:23 pm

Re: Potential buyer - power user; specific intended usage

Post by navquestions »

Thank you for the quick response.

Just a few concerns/follow up questions:

- I won't able to use the accessibility wizard to modify the GUI as I would need to test it unmodified, as a regular user would.

- I don't think I will be able to use 'key activated'. How important is this for most users? I would need to make precise targets all day, but I am unable to keep hitting/speaking a key.

- If I am testing a GUI form full of controls, would gravity (if I tell it to stick to buttons, for example) stick to a bunch of them on my way to my target?

I can see from the other posts that SmartNav works great for the average user but I would need to navigate screens like this, for example (not the actual product - just an example):

http://www.pfinc.com/images/28000/28314GUI.gif

Would it be realistic to expect to easily and quickly hit targets like the up/down arrows beside the fields?

Thanks again!
navquestions
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:23 pm

Re: Potential buyer - power user; specific intended usage

Post by navquestions »

Any existing users or NP reps with input?
Birch
Posts: 1139
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 5:00 am
Location: Corvallis, Oregon

Re: Potential buyer - power user; specific intended usage

Post by Birch »

Key activated mode can be mapped to one of the clicking switches in addition to a hotkey if desired (and can be combined with click on release).

Yes, if the gravity feature is enabled and the cursor passes over multiple UI controls on the way to a desired control then it will snap to the other controls on the way first. So it may not be suitable for your intended use.

http://www.pfinc.com/images/28000/28314GUI.gif
That is quite a lot of UI controls ;)

It may be possible for you to quickly navigate and click in that interface - it will really depend on how quickly you became familiar and proficient with using the SmartNav.

We provide a 30 day return policy which would allow you to try the device out to see if it suits your need. That may be the easiest determine if it will work. You can find more about it here.
http://www.naturalpoint.com/smartnav/su ... olicy.html
Sean
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:00 am
Location: Australia

Re: Potential buyer - power user; specific intended usage

Post by Sean »

Hello Navquestions,

you asked for some user input. Here it is�

I use NaturallySpeaking V 11 and a SmartNAV 4/Dwellclicker for computer access (I also use the Click-N-Type on-screen keyboard when NaturallySpeaking doesn't work well). I spend at least 5 days a week and approximately 8 hours a day on the system. Like you I am in ICT, more specifically I work as an Assistive Technology Consultant assessing, recommending, installing equipment and training people with a disability to use ICT.

I tested your sample screen and even though it only occupied a quarter of my monitor I had no trouble accurately going to any of the drop-down menu arrows or small dialogue boxes. Clicking on any item on the screen was just as easy.

From what you have told us I would suggest you buy a SmartNAV 4 AT and work with the Dwellclicker option, once you get used to it will be the fastest form of mouse access for you. A SmartNAV combined with Dragon NaturallySpeaking (DNS) gives you very productive computer access. Once you're used to it, and have trained DNS, you will wonder why you bothered with a standard keyboard and mouse in the 1st place!

Yes, it's quite likely that your neck will get tired when you initially use a SmartNAV but, your muscles will strengthen and get used to the extra exercise within a month or 2. Just like any new form of excercise. Birch has given you some links to help you with that.

I've had the odd glitch over the last 8 years of SmartNAV usage, usually my fault. I've always received excellent and timely response from this forum, particularly from the NaturalPoint support team.

The SmartNAV 4 is a very mature product, you will have more trouble from Dragon NaturallySpeaking. With DNS you need to make sure that you spend a bit more money and get a quality wireless microphone. I'm currently using a Plantronics CS70n with an Andrea USB Soundpod and generally get good accuracy in mainstream programs. I find the Click-n-Type on screen keyboard/SmartNav to be an essential addition for hands free computing. I find DNS doesn't handle single words or short phrases well. Only practice will tell you what's the right combination for you.

That's enough from me for the moment, if you have any further questions post again and I'll answer.
navquestions
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:23 pm

Re: Potential buyer - power user; specific intended usage

Post by navquestions »

Thank you very much for your detailed feedback, Sean. Very good to know, and I will likely be getting a Smartnav when I return to work.

Personally, I have been using Dragon NaturallySpeaking for some time now and find that word detection works great, even when I only say one word. So in terms of DNS 11, I have no issues there.

I am curious about your suggestion to get the AT version rather than the EG version to get dwell clicking. I was leaning toward getting foot pedals and I'm under the impression that dwell clicking would not be fast enough to meet my needs. Seeing as you have experience and seem to know what you're talking about, I would like to know why you recommended dwell clicking.

Thanks for giving me a little bit of optimism!
navquestions
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:23 pm

Re: Potential buyer - power user; specific intended usage

Post by navquestions »

Finally got my smartnav and would like to ask a few follow-up questions.

1- I have to do a lot of work in remote desktop windows (VMs) but it seems that features such as Gravity do not work in there. Is there any way to make it work, or any other way to make it easier to use the smartnav in a VM window? If not, is this projected to be fixed anytime soon?

2- In some applications (the one I am testing for work) the cursor lags/does not move smoothly, but only when positioned inside a sub-window (moves fine within the app, but if I open a window in the app, the mouse is laggy within the child window). Is this a known issue, and is there anything I can do about this?

3- What settings do people typically use when they are fully acclimated to the smartnav? ie. relative vs absolute, speed setting, Motion. Currently I am using relative at speed 13, gravity on, key activated with click on release (bound to a foot pedal). I want to practice using proper settings though, in the sense that I don't want to master Relative only to find that Absolute is much better when one is used to it.

4- How long do people take to get used to it? I find that on day 2 I am already doing quite well, but small targets are still an issue. Do people reach a point where small targets are easy to reach without precision or gravity, or should I accept that these will be a normal part of my process?

5- Is there any way to make Precision also toggle Move when a user has Key activated selected? It would make sense that if a user with Key Activated checked is holding their Precision button, they would like to make a subtle movement. At present, user must hold the Move and Precision keys to achieve this result (in my case, two foot pedals, but it would be nice to just have to hit my Precision pedal). If this feature does not exist, could it be added? Can you tell I'm a software tester? :P


Thanks in advance, and thanks for delivering such a robust solution. Loving it so far, and optimistic that I'll be zooming around in no time. Sorry for the wordiness!
NaturalPoint - Mike
Posts: 1896
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:41 am
Location: Corvallis, OR

Re: Potential buyer - power user; specific intended usage

Post by NaturalPoint - Mike »

Answers:

3: Proper settings are what you feel the most comfortable with. I much prefer relative to absolute, however I have spoken with people who prefer the other way. I also use a slower speed setting because I prefer a wider range of motion.

4: I usually recommend that people take 2 weeks of use to fully acclimate themselves to use of the SmartNav. If you're still experiencing issues after two days, I'd say thats perfectly normal. You may find that after a few more days, you will no longer need gravity for precision movement. Also, you may want to consider lowering your mouse speed a bit to help with more minute movements.

5: Currently, I don't believe there is any way to do this, however we can certainly look into the feasibility of implementing this in a future version.

Follow-up, follow-up questions:

1: What virtual machine environment are you using?

2: Which applications in particular?
navquestions
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:23 pm

Re: Potential buyer - power user; specific intended usage

Post by navquestions »

1- The VMs are all VMWare, which I then connect to using Remote Desktop Connection.

2- It is a .NET application that we develop..I don't know if that helps or if I will need to find another example app that I can share. EDIT: "Paint.net" seems to do similar, although much less extreme. The upper menu & toolbar area has no issues but the rest of the window feels different, as if there's a bit of latency and the cursor is slower. In our application this effect feels more pronounced, and I can overshoot targets because of the lag. So I guess it's safe to assume this is an issue with applications written using the dot net framework.

3/4- Thanks

5- Personally, I think there's no reason not to aside from potential difficulty in implementation. In the meanwhile, I made an autohotkey script to do it for me. In case anyone needs to know in the future:

*Numpad8::Send {Numpad7 down}{Numpad9 down}
*Numpad8 up::Send {Numpad7 up}{Numpad9 up}

num7 is my Smartnav shortcut for move
num9 is my smartnav shortcut for precision

my footpedal for move is bound as num7
my footpedal for precision is bound as num8 (which, through the script, holds down 7 and 9 and releases when I let off, allowing me to move precisely and let go to stop).
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