TrackIR for pseudo 3d "fish tank" effects

category_five
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Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:55 am

TrackIR for pseudo 3d "fish tank" effects

Post by category_five » Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:44 am

Hi all,

Apologies if this has already been asked, I looked around but didn't see this specifically addressed.

I'm wondering if a 1:1 acceleration ratio of the TrackIR5 will give a pseudo 3d effect like is seen in Jonny Lee's Head Tracking for Desktop VR Displays using the WiiRemote] (3rd article down). As a corollary to that question, I know World of Warcraft support never happened, however wouldn't just adjusting the camera view slightly based on the head position via TrackIR allow for pseudo 3d at the cost of only a few hours of a blizzard programmer's time? No custom animations or emotes needed and it would still allow the TrackIR a modicum of benefit (basically enough to justify my purchase by adding value to the game I play most) :D .

VincentG
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Re: TrackIR for pseudo 3d "fish tank" effects

Post by VincentG » Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:19 pm

A problem with a 1:1 ratio would be that the camera looses track of the tracking objects, after rotating the head to a 45 degree angle in relation to the camera itself.

Seth Steiling
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Re: TrackIR for pseudo 3d "fish tank" effects

Post by Seth Steiling » Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:23 pm

My main issue in dealing with Blizzard has not been determining the best path for integration (whether normal TrackIR view control, with orientation axes emphasized the most, or a 3D translation-only integration, like you're describing), but rather just getting clearance from their QA dept. They've actually had developers willing to do the work, but their interoperability and testing guys have been swamped basically continually over the past 18 months (simultaneously working on Cataclysm, the new Battle.net, SC2, and Diablo 3). They're the gateway to the devs, and so far, have been impenetrable. :)

But, as far as what you're requesting being achievable--the 1:1 profile should work pretty well. But, I'm not sure how different screen resolutions might distort the true 1:1 nature of it. Like Vince noted, 1:1 isn't typically a good thing with normal TrackIR support, but with the Johnny Lee demo you mentioned, it's actually necessary to create the effect. At the very least, it would should work just as well (actually better, because of the far superior resolution) as his demo if being used on a screen that has the same resolution that the developer used when mapping the view control. Whether it's easy to normalize across multiple resolutions--I'm not sure about that.
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VincentG
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Re: TrackIR for pseudo 3d "fish tank" effects

Post by VincentG » Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:02 pm

Virtual Windows Demo ::

Powered by TrackIR, Dinther Product Design's Virtual Windows transforms integrated computer monitors into a virtual portal that tracks head movement through all 6DOF, rendering view-dependent images on the screen.

It now includes a framework which allows a limitless number of monitors to be melded into a single window pane, effectively lifting size restrictions of the window.


http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/05- ... earch.html

category_five
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Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:55 am

Re: TrackIR for pseudo 3d "fish tank" effects

Post by category_five » Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:54 am

Thank you both for the prompt and enlightening responses!


[quote=NaturalPoint - Vincent]A problem with a 1:1 ratio would be that the camera looses track of the tracking objects, after rotating the head to a 45 degree angle in relation to the camera itself.[/quote]

Borrowing Seth's terminology, Jonny Lee's demo uses a, "3D translation only integration" rather than orientation axes.


[quote=NaturalPoint - Seth]My main issue in dealing with Blizzard has not been determining the best path for integration (whether normal TrackIR view control, with orientation axes emphasized the most, or a 3D translation-only integration, like you're describing), but rather just getting clearance from their QA dept. They've actually had developers willing to do the work, but their interoperability and testing guys have been swamped basically continually over the past 18 months (simultaneously working on Cataclysm, the new Battle.net, SC2, and Diablo 3). They're the gateway to the devs, and so far, have been impenetrable. :)

But, as far as what you're requesting being achievable--the 1:1 profile should work pretty well. But, I'm not sure how different screen resolutions might distort the true 1:1 nature of it. Like Vince noted, 1:1 isn't typically a good thing with normal TrackIR support, but with the Johnny Lee demo you mentioned, it's actually necessary to create the effect. At the very least, it would should work just as well (actually better, because of the far superior resolution) as his demo if being used on a screen that has the same resolution that the developer used when mapping the view control. Whether it's easy to normalize across multiple resolutions--I'm not sure about that. [/quote]

Resolutions are proportional with each other. I imagine a slider would be sufficient to allow for change of the values in incremental proportions (x*0.5, x*1.5, etc) permitting individual users to modify the variable input to match their setup without exhaustive testing on the developer's part. In any case it's all "theorycraft" as they say on the Warcraft boards. It's a shame that the developers are too busy.

I took a closer look at how the Vuzix head tracking is implemented in Warcraft, it seems it's done like any warcraft add-on. If you download the Vuzix driver and use the iWear VR920 Calibrator to select your Warcraft installation it will place several human readable files in the /interface/AddOns/VFXController directory. It looks like it uses the Lua language, like many warcraft add-ons, and it's all human readable script. Of course, it's for VR style head tracking rather than a pseudo 3d fishtank, and also culls the data in whatever format the VR920 gives it. If I knew how to program and knew how to access the TrackIR positional information I imagine it would be fairly easy to hack Vuzix's add on to accept input from a TrackIR device instead (Sadly the fishtank effect might require unlocking the camera which I'm not sure the script allows for). If Blizzard was the original author of the add-on it might all even be legal :grin:.

[quote=NaturalPoint - Vincent]Virtual Windows Demo ::
Powered by TrackIR, Dinther Product Design's Virtual Windows transforms integrated computer monitors into a virtual portal that tracks head movement through all 6DOF, rendering view-dependent images on the screen.

It now includes a framework which allows a limitless number of monitors to be melded into a single window pane, effectively lifting size restrictions of the window.

http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/05- ... earch.html
[/quote]

That is so freaking cool, Vincent. Put agent smith against the back wall, change the dowels to slow spiral bullet streams and you have the beginnings of a bullet dodging first person shooter featuring the TrackIR as a must have input device with pseudo 3d as an added bonus.

mikesblack
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Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:21 pm

Re: TrackIR for pseudo 3d "fish tank" effects

Post by mikesblack » Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:44 pm

Hi there-
I'm new to this forum. I'm currently building a flight sim that uses MSFSX. I use 4 42 inch hdtvs for my displays. In order to have a full immersive visual experience I have found software called "Wideview" that enables me to network multiple PCs for multiple views that, unlike Matrox Triple screen that expands the view size of the center view only, changes the respective angles for each respective view. While achieving 3 independent views is possible on 1 PC in FSX, it's at the expense of frame rates.

Anyway, many simmers are seeking the virtual outside view with curved screens, image warping and multiple monitors or beamers; but can not achieve the effect of a true collimated display that is cost prohibitive. Seeing the presentations by Johny Lee and Dinther makes me think that one could have a near virtual experience if somehow through combined efforts the technologies could merge. Contact Luciano info@wideview.it

Thanks,
Mike
Eugene, Oregon

Wideview website.
http://www.wideview.it/forum/default.asp

eisennpferd
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Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:53 am
Location: Germany

Re: TrackIR for pseudo 3d "fish tank" effects

Post by eisennpferd » Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:18 am

Hello together,

I�m just looking for this feature you are talking about.

Virtual Window Mode.

I think it should simply be possible if Trackir would be able to map one head-movement to 2 axis in the output.

Example: Moving my head to left performs a virtual movement of my viewpoint to the left and simultaniously rotate my viewing a little bit to the right, so the monitor keeps showing the same virtual window.

I think this could be useful in wideview 3-monitor setup in the virtual cockpit of my flightsim.

Than this should look like looking througt my three cockpit-windows (3 monitors)

I hope that I�m not completely wrong.

Sorry for my english. I did my very best.

Greetings from EDKB

RZephyr07
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:12 pm

Re: TrackIR for pseudo 3d "fish tank" effects

Post by RZephyr07 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:17 pm

I registered to say that I'm intensely interested in this "virtual window mode" - especially interested in combining it with Nvidia 3D vision to create the perfect virtual reality display.

I have not yet bought a TrackIR 5... and was disappointed to find that it does not support the "virtual window mode" that I saw in Johnny Lee's wiimote demonstrations.

Please notify me if NaturalPoint makes any significant strides in this area with their TrackIR system.

Seth Steiling
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Location: Corvallis, Oregon

Re: TrackIR for pseudo 3d "fish tank" effects

Post by Seth Steiling » Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:43 am

TrackIR already supports the ability to create a "virtual window mode." TrackIR reports translational head movements, which is all that Johnny Lee is using in that demo. This is very simple, and the TrackIR API supports all 6 DOF (which includes 3 translational axes), so it's not a limitation of our technology. In fact, it's already been developed in the Virtual Window app that Vincent referred to above:

http://forum.naturalpoint.com/forum/ubb ... #Post39896

The limitation, or rather the determining factor, is whether the particular program you want this feature in supports our API.
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RZephyr07
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Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:12 pm

Re: TrackIR for pseudo 3d "fish tank" effects

Post by RZephyr07 » Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:02 pm

Do you know which games - if any - support this "virtual window mode", then? All of the games that support 6 DOF?

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