Seeing all those amazing enhancements and improvements I wonder whether it wouldn't be possible to kind of include some of the 3rd party add-ons plus implement some useful features in the core NaturalPoint software.
For games that don't support mouse-look (not to mention enhanced-mode), the TrackMapper has been a 3rd party tool I wouldn't wanna miss. I haven't used TIR2Joy myself, yet, but take many users love this, too.
Wouldn't it make sense to implement at least some of their features in the core NP software, without the need for 3rd-party add-ons?
Let's e.g. take games that already are enhanced, like WarBirds - but there still are some functions like the cockpit-lean that require a keyboard-key to be pressed. Well, using the TIR with the TrackMapper AFAIK doesn't allow me to use my TIR in enhanced mode *plus* map a keyboard-key to any of its positions in addition - but with the new 6DOF capabilities this should be easily possible, no? Twist your head to slew the view in the normal enhanced mode, *plus* lean left to control the cockpit-lean. The same of course would apply on Aces High's head-movement.
Even if a game shouldn't support 6DOF it would be possible to let the additional TIR-axes output digital keyboard-keys, right? I for one would really appreciate such a possibility.
And why restrict such improved functionality on digital keyboard-keys? It shouldn't be too much asked to support analog (DirectX-)axes, too. Now combine the requested 'integrated 3rd-party features' and imagine not only aiming in MechWarrior or HL2 or Doom3 or any other game via your TrackIR but moreover leaning in GhostRecon or Thief etc. - this definitively would rock!
Last but not least I'd like to (again) suggest to allow analog (DirectX-)buttons in addition to the normal keyboard-keys to be mapped to the TIR's functions. 1st off, many of today's sims come along with such an inumerable number of key-combinations that are shifted and chorded in scopes that it's hard to almost impossible to find enough 'free' keys to use for our TIRs. Plus, what's more: analog (DirectX-)buttons don't get messed up when pressing any chording key(s) like keyboard-keys (can) do (it sucks if you bail out 'by accident')!
Just some suggestions and requests, but I do hope they ring some bell over at NaturalPoint - after all, all this stuff is possible, all this stuff has been done before, now I'd like to see it in 1 single software-package instead of several 3rd-party add-ons.
Any chance we might see something like this?
[ December 13, 2004, 04:13 AM: Message edited by: DonULFonso ]
TIR, 6DOF, TrackMapper, TIR2Joy, etc.
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DonULFonso
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Re: TIR, 6DOF, TrackMapper, TIR2Joy, etc.
Hi matey!
Yep, good suggestions there.
Yep, good suggestions there.
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Charlie251
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Re: TIR, 6DOF, TrackMapper, TIR2Joy, etc.
While they do sound good in theory, there are a few problems with it all that I will try to map out.
About putting the 3rd party add-ons into core NP software... this was thought about back when MKMapper first came out if I remember correctly. But then you have NP putting someone elses code into their software. Even if the 3rd party developer offered it for free, NP would still have to integrate it and then support it. Just because the code is written does not mean that it will integrate flawlessly. The man hours needed for this makes it a very low priority especially when it works just fine the way it is.
The way it is now, the 3rd party guys retain the right to their code, can update it as much as they like, and NP doesnt spend any time on it so they can allocate their minimal resources elsewhere.
As for the DirectX, this is a tough one. Mainly because you are going to be interfacing multiple things through DirectX interface causing a major chance for interference. This was looked at also and then canned do to the high amount of problems associated with it.
Of course, as time goes by, things change. So it will be interesting to see if something new can be looked at in this area.
Edit: Also, developers of games normally have default DirectX mappings to their keys. Meaning, that there is a much higher chance for the interference I mentioned above.
[ December 13, 2004, 08:17 AM: Message edited by: Charlie ]
About putting the 3rd party add-ons into core NP software... this was thought about back when MKMapper first came out if I remember correctly. But then you have NP putting someone elses code into their software. Even if the 3rd party developer offered it for free, NP would still have to integrate it and then support it. Just because the code is written does not mean that it will integrate flawlessly. The man hours needed for this makes it a very low priority especially when it works just fine the way it is.
The way it is now, the 3rd party guys retain the right to their code, can update it as much as they like, and NP doesnt spend any time on it so they can allocate their minimal resources elsewhere.
As for the DirectX, this is a tough one. Mainly because you are going to be interfacing multiple things through DirectX interface causing a major chance for interference. This was looked at also and then canned do to the high amount of problems associated with it.
Of course, as time goes by, things change. So it will be interesting to see if something new can be looked at in this area.
Edit: Also, developers of games normally have default DirectX mappings to their keys. Meaning, that there is a much higher chance for the interference I mentioned above.
[ December 13, 2004, 08:17 AM: Message edited by: Charlie ]
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DonULFonso
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Re: TIR, 6DOF, TrackMapper, TIR2Joy, etc.
Well, I wasn't directly implying to take over those 3rd party apps, 'just' their functionality. Those 3rd party tools 'just' proved that it is possible, and if users and fans, i.e. non-professionals, can do it, the professionals at NP should be able just as well .
Resources may be an issue, sure, and 'pain vs gain' always applies on programming, right. However, the suggested functionality IMHO would be more than just 'goodies'. They could enhance our TIRs even more.
As for allowing analog DirectX-keys, I use both Roger Wilco as well as TeamSpeak for voice-comms. The 1st doesn't support analog buttons, the 2nd does, and I've never had any issues with it, opposite to RW's normal keyboard-keys that of course are subject to chording keys like any other keyboard-keys. Press RW's mike-key and hold it, and later press some programmed button on your stick that generates a chorded combo, and there goes your mike. I for one don't really fancy this.
Most games do in fact pre-map some analog buttons, sure, but I've yet to see a game that pre-maps lets say 28 analog (DirectX-)buttons ! My current mike-button for TeamSpeak is button 28, BTW, and it works like a charm and without interfering with any other game-function.
So, if we could agree on the fact that the mentioned 3rd party tools are more than just additional goodies but do really help for games that else don't support the TIR directly, and on the fact that everything I've suggested already has been done before and thus is possible to program, then others probably may see the potential of said suggestions, too.
I for one really would consider them useful, and useful enough to take a closer look at their implementation. Why not try to get the best out of our TIRs ? I'd think that especially TIR users usually ain't the type to be content with common standards - else we wouldn't be TIR users but still content with using our POV-coolies ...
P.S.: Magig Man, do you by chance happen to be the Magic Man from over at FW?
[ December 13, 2004, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: DonULFonso ]
Resources may be an issue, sure, and 'pain vs gain' always applies on programming, right. However, the suggested functionality IMHO would be more than just 'goodies'. They could enhance our TIRs even more.
As for allowing analog DirectX-keys, I use both Roger Wilco as well as TeamSpeak for voice-comms. The 1st doesn't support analog buttons, the 2nd does, and I've never had any issues with it, opposite to RW's normal keyboard-keys that of course are subject to chording keys like any other keyboard-keys. Press RW's mike-key and hold it, and later press some programmed button on your stick that generates a chorded combo, and there goes your mike. I for one don't really fancy this.
Most games do in fact pre-map some analog buttons, sure, but I've yet to see a game that pre-maps lets say 28 analog (DirectX-)buttons ! My current mike-button for TeamSpeak is button 28, BTW, and it works like a charm and without interfering with any other game-function.
So, if we could agree on the fact that the mentioned 3rd party tools are more than just additional goodies but do really help for games that else don't support the TIR directly, and on the fact that everything I've suggested already has been done before and thus is possible to program, then others probably may see the potential of said suggestions, too.
I for one really would consider them useful, and useful enough to take a closer look at their implementation. Why not try to get the best out of our TIRs ? I'd think that especially TIR users usually ain't the type to be content with common standards - else we wouldn't be TIR users but still content with using our POV-coolies ...
P.S.: Magig Man, do you by chance happen to be the Magic Man from over at FW?
[ December 13, 2004, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: DonULFonso ]
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DonULFonso
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Re: TIR, 6DOF, TrackMapper, TIR2Joy, etc.
THX for your comments, Charly, they're very much appreciated.
Nope, I don't think I got you wrong. You pointed out one side of the medal (the resources needed to do such a work, possible problems, etc.), I the other side (the potential, the use). As so often, truth is somewhere in between .
I just wanted to mention those points that I as a user would love to see taken care of or at least looked into because I as a user would consider them really useful. As a user I however and of course don't know about the work needed to implement such suggestions, that's right.
It's good to hear at least some of those items are not forgotten in all that vector frenzy...
As it happens, I do believe that those features suggested could add some further use to the new 6DOF capabilities, too. Actually, I even do believe that 6DOF could profit most from them due to its enhanced capabilities such as more axes to start with.
What I mean basically is that enhanced mode and 6DOF sure are fine, and it rocks with those games that support either mode - but what about the rest?! Why not allow the TIR to rock regardless of whether a game may support it or not ?! (I for one wouldn't wanna miss the TrackMapper, that's sure!)
Nope, I don't think I got you wrong. You pointed out one side of the medal (the resources needed to do such a work, possible problems, etc.), I the other side (the potential, the use). As so often, truth is somewhere in between .
I just wanted to mention those points that I as a user would love to see taken care of or at least looked into because I as a user would consider them really useful. As a user I however and of course don't know about the work needed to implement such suggestions, that's right.
It's good to hear at least some of those items are not forgotten in all that vector frenzy...
As it happens, I do believe that those features suggested could add some further use to the new 6DOF capabilities, too. Actually, I even do believe that 6DOF could profit most from them due to its enhanced capabilities such as more axes to start with.
What I mean basically is that enhanced mode and 6DOF sure are fine, and it rocks with those games that support either mode - but what about the rest?! Why not allow the TIR to rock regardless of whether a game may support it or not ?! (I for one wouldn't wanna miss the TrackMapper, that's sure!)
Re: TIR, 6DOF, TrackMapper, TIR2Joy, etc.
quote:Originally posted by DonULFonso:
P.S.: Magic Man, do you by chance happen to be the Magic Man from over at FW?Ayye. Happy Birthday!!!
[ December 13, 2004, 05:15 PM: Message edited by: Magic Man ]
P.S.: Magic Man, do you by chance happen to be the Magic Man from over at FW?Ayye. Happy Birthday!!!
[ December 13, 2004, 05:15 PM: Message edited by: Magic Man ]
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Charlie251
- Posts: 955
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Re: TIR, 6DOF, TrackMapper, TIR2Joy, etc.
Hi Don,
Whoa, dont get me wrong. I agree with you that these features rock and are awesome. I wouldnt mind a fully integrated driver set with axis mappers and key mappers included. But, I think they can spend their time doing other things that 3rd party folks cant.
I do need to correct myself in a fashion. I got a response from Eric, one of the programmers, about the key issue.
One of the things on their list is making multiple key hot keys. Meaning, you can use things like Shift or Control as well as a key. That will expand the number of keys you can use as a hot key by a whole lot!
Second thing is they are looking into the DirectX mapping of keys again. I was correct in saying it was looked at a year or two ago and discarded for their own reasons. I do not remember the reasons exactly but I asked... so i will post when I find out. However, time has passed as I said and they are looking into it again.
No promises of course.... it may not ever happen... but the idea is there and it is being looked into.
Whoa, dont get me wrong. I agree with you that these features rock and are awesome. I wouldnt mind a fully integrated driver set with axis mappers and key mappers included. But, I think they can spend their time doing other things that 3rd party folks cant.
I do need to correct myself in a fashion. I got a response from Eric, one of the programmers, about the key issue.
One of the things on their list is making multiple key hot keys. Meaning, you can use things like Shift or Control as well as a key. That will expand the number of keys you can use as a hot key by a whole lot!
Second thing is they are looking into the DirectX mapping of keys again. I was correct in saying it was looked at a year or two ago and discarded for their own reasons. I do not remember the reasons exactly but I asked... so i will post when I find out. However, time has passed as I said and they are looking into it again.
No promises of course.... it may not ever happen... but the idea is there and it is being looked into.