TrackClip Pro - how to keep dots from crossing?

metagroboliser
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:56 pm

TrackClip Pro - how to keep dots from crossing?

Post by metagroboliser »

I just picked up a new TrackIR 5 and TrackClip pro. I'm having extreme trouble finding a setup that'd prevent two of the three dots from crossing each in the high-use range of motion.

Here's what I'm seeing - with the TrackIR sitting atop my 30" LCD (offset left of center to align with the clip on my headset), and the clip aligned as indicated in the diagram on the instruction card included in the package, I get a complete loss of tracking (dots going red, tracking becoming frozen) in the top left quadrant. Looking at the 'camera' view, it's clear that the lower two dots are running into each other, causing loss of tracking.

I've tried moving the TrackIR around, mounting the clip up and down the headset, rotating the clip (within reason - given the warning on the instruction card not to get too aggressive with it), as well as extending the clip arm up and down. I simply cannot find a spot where dots don't end up running into each other at some location in the high-use range.

Unless I'm missing something terribly basic, others have to be seeing the same behaviour because, as far as I can tell, it is inherent in the Clip's geometry. How are others setting this up?

I'd appreciate any guidance from the NaturalPoint support staff on this. At this time, each simming session is preceded by half an hour of messing with the positioning in order to get something workable set up. This is clearly not acceptable.

Thanks in advance.
NaturalPoint - Mike
Posts: 1896
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:41 am
Location: Corvallis, OR

Re: TrackClip Pro - how to keep dots from crossing?

Post by NaturalPoint - Mike »

When you are using the computer, where in relation to the monitor is the TrackClip?

Have you tried using the hat mounted track clip and do you experience issues with that? (for troubleshooting purposes)
metagroboliser
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:56 pm

Re: TrackClip Pro - how to keep dots from crossing?

Post by metagroboliser »

The TrackIR sits along the top edge of a 30" monitor, offset a few inches to the left to align it horizontally with the Clip attached to my headset. My head is horizontally and vertically aligned with the center of the 30" monitor at a distance of about 2.5 ft.

This yields a geometry where the TrackIR looks straight out and down at the Clip. (The top of the monitor is higher than the location of the Clip on the headset). I usually adjust the sensor position to place the three visible dots in the middle of the grid. With this setup, I cannot find a position where at least one location in the regular range of motion, two of the three dots don't come together.

Using the hatclip, the behaviour is as expected (reference here being my previous TrackIR 4 + Hat Clip combo) ... tracking is lost at motion extremes because the sensor loses site of at least one reflector. Most importantly, there is no loss of tracking in the usable motion range.

The bottom line (from what I can tell), is that the Clip's IR emitters' relative positioning will *always* create a 'blind spot' in the usable range of motion. I simply cannot conceive how other users don't end up having to recalibrate extensively every time they start a session.

That said, I am clearly not an expert, and would like to see if there is something I could try to make this a little more manageable.

A few tidbits (in the hope they might help):
  • I am sometimes able to find a combination of sensor position, Clip attachment height on the headset, and clip arm extension where the merge point only occurs at the extremes of the motion range --- however, (strangely), the same position fails to work in a subsequent session.
  • Occasionally, during a 'calibration' session, the loss of tracking starts to vary ... in other words, a point in space being tracked well will start showing loss of tracking sporadically, and vice versa ... this is always near a 'merge-point.'
  • Restarting the TrackIR software [v5.1.200(build 9414) on Win7Pro x64] often improves tracking for a while in regions near a merge point. This deteriorates with time. So a software issue could potentially be compounding the problem.
Any help/ideas/guidance is much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
NaturalPoint - Mike
Posts: 1896
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:41 am
Location: Corvallis, OR

Re: TrackClip Pro - how to keep dots from crossing?

Post by NaturalPoint - Mike »

If it is possible, you may wish to try mounting the camera on the side or bottom of the monitor, and using the camera rotation feature of the TrackIR software to make the adjustment. It might be able to get you a better angle.
metagroboliser
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:56 pm

Re: TrackClip Pro - how to keep dots from crossing?

Post by metagroboliser »

[quote=NaturalPoint - Mike]If it is possible, you may wish to try mounting the camera on the side or bottom of the monitor, and using the camera rotation feature of the TrackIR software to make the adjustment. It might be able to get you a better angle. [/quote]

Mike,

Thanks for all your assistance so far, but I'm afraid after spending *far* too much time trying to get this to work, I'm forced to conclude that there is either a bug in 5.1.3, or I've received a bad camera. Rest assured, I've tried all your recommendations so far (including mounting the camera sideway/at the bottom/etc.) ... to no avail.

Here's where we are:
  • Tracking based on the TrackClip (mounted on a baseball cap) remains good.
  • Switching to the TrackClip Pro immediately results in erratic tracking behaviour.
  • At this point, I'm also losing tracking intermittently across random locations across the entire camera FOV ... including areas where there is no merge-point. Its as if the camera just loses tracking on one of the LED's on the clip at random intervals.
  • No two 'tuning' sessions are the same ... i.e. the location where the camera loses tracking varies from session to session despite no changes in camera-clip positioning ... however it does remains somewhat constant within a session.
  • The previous point leads me to believe something more than just camera-clip geometry is going on here. (Is 5.1.3 doing a behind-the-scenes input-range calibration every session)?
I'm at wits' end here. Having been a happy user of every TrackIR model since v2, I must admit I'm very surprised at the difficulty I'm having here. I do hope this is simply a bad camera and there isn't anything more problematic going on.

Where do you recommend we go from here?
NaturalPoint - Mike
Posts: 1896
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:41 am
Location: Corvallis, OR

Re: TrackClip Pro - how to keep dots from crossing?

Post by NaturalPoint - Mike »

Send an email to support@naturalpoint.com with the device serial number, and we can discuss replacement options for the device.
metagroboliser
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:56 pm

Re: TrackClip Pro - how to keep dots from crossing?

Post by metagroboliser »

Willdo, thanks.
Gnrlpatton
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:15 pm

Re: TrackClip Pro - how to keep dots from crossing?

Post by Gnrlpatton »

I have this same problem, just with a 24" monitor, a TrackIR4 device and the TrackClip. I am running TIR5 software, but I had this problem even with V4.

My TIR is mounted just to the left of my monitor, and about 3 inches down from the top. I had it sitting on top of my monitor before, but no matter where it sits, I get the dots crossing. I haven't tried the hat clip, I suppose I could dig it out and see if it's still twitchy, but I would guess not.

Did you ever get a solution for this? Any other recommendations on how to set it up better?

Thanks,
Kevin
NaturalPoint - Mike
Posts: 1896
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:41 am
Location: Corvallis, OR

Re: TrackClip Pro - how to keep dots from crossing?

Post by NaturalPoint - Mike »

When aligning your camera, the optimal position for it would be directly in front of the object that it is tracking. Alternatively, you can mount the camera offset, however you will lose a bit of tracking in the direction of the offset. TrackClips to tend to be a bit more forgiving for left to right movement than TrackClip Pros, however the Pros are significantly more forgiving to up and down offsets. If you could post a camera view screenshot of the dots right before and after they cross, I may be able to make recommendations on the positioning.
Spirit X
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:22 pm

Re: TrackClip Pro - how to keep dots from crossing?

Post by Spirit X »

I know this is an old thread but having just bought TrackIR 5 with the Trackclip Pro, I am experiencing the same issue.

No matter where I position the camera or the arm/ lights on the clip, two of the lights will always merge in one sector of my viewing.

It seems like a fairly obvious design flaw at face value but I wondered if any progress had been made regarding methods of resolving the issue over the past couple of years?

The best I can come up with at the moment is to try and make sure that each of the 3 lights owns its own horizontal and vertical corridor within the display if you see what I mean. That way, lights will generally only merge on the diagonals which at least makes it a little less frequent.
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