Optimum workflow?

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therasoft
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Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:32 am

Optimum workflow?

Post by therasoft » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:45 am

Excuse me if this has been posted before as I tried to look through all the related posts.

Here is what I am understanding.
DAZ plugin is in development
Poser has bvh import capabilities but can be finiky ( bvh files cannot be exported for rigid bodies)
Expression motion caputure software is coming.
Hands are not available but being worked on.

I currently own poser, and daz. I have contemplated purchasing a 3d package like 3d studio max, or maya, or motion builder.

It appears as if there is a 3d studio max plugin, and motion builder has been used.

I am new to motion capture. I am interested in making a short film and reducing hand keying time. But I don't want to invest in the wrong 3d package.

I do not own a system so this is the workflow I imagine. Tell me where I am wrong please.

1. Set up in a 20x20 room with 8 cameras minimum for 2 actors, 12 to 16 is best. Gives a 10x 10 space.
2. Requires 2 capture suits of correct actor height, 2 sets of tracking balls, softer if actor may be on the floor.
3. Calibrate and capture full body performance based on storyboard with blocking.
4. export in bvh in poser pro at 24-30 FPS
QUESTION: HOW DOES POSER DEAL WITH TWO ACTORS?
5. Insert animation layers for hands and hand key
6. When facial tracking software is out, either buy more cameras or deconstruct full body camera set up, and go to facial tracking set up with 6 cameras.
7. capture performance of expressions with audio
QUESTION: WOULD YOU NOT CAPTURE THE NECK MOTION SINCE IT HAS BEEN CAPTURED IN FULL BODY MOVEMENT?
8. Import the bvh file to poser
QUESTION: CAN POSER HAVE 2 BVH FILES APPLIED TO A CHARACTER ( I.E. FACE AND FULL BODY?)
9. New layer of facial animation, uncheck facial animation generation, but apply audio to capture phenomes
10. All the while adjusting keyframes that are bogus.
QUESTION: HOW DO YOU HANDLE A RIGID BODY IN POSER.
11. Network render

I am somewhat new to this stuff so any folks out there willing to comment would be helpful.
I would like to know if higher end 3d packages improve this workflow significantly ( if they eliminate a large portion of the steps I am game). Poser users is this correct with bvh files. How would Daz change this?

I realize this is a lot of questions some poser specific, but I think helpful to be answered. It is difficult to determine what it would require to get a walking talking grasping 3d figure. ( I realize it will never be perfect without hand keying).

Thanks

John

VincentG
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Location: Corvallis, Oregon

Re: Optimum workflow?

Post by VincentG » Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:18 pm

I'm not an expert on the Poser software, but I will answer what I can


1. Set up in a 20x20 room with 8 cameras minimum for 2 actors, 12 to 16 is best. Gives a 10x 10 space.

2 actors = 12+ cameras


2. Requires 2 capture suits of correct actor height, 2 sets of tracking balls, softer if actor may be on the floor.

Correct


3. Calibrate and capture full body performance based on storyboard with blocking.

Yep


4. export in bvh in poser pro at 24-30 FPS
QUESTION: HOW DOES POSER DEAL WITH TWO ACTORS?

Not sure about the several actor portion, but the export settings sound correct.


6. When facial tracking software is out, either buy more cameras or deconstruct full body camera set up, and go to facial tracking set up with 6 cameras.

Correct


7. capture performance of expressions with audio
QUESTION: WOULD YOU NOT CAPTURE THE NECK MOTION SINCE IT HAS BEEN CAPTURED IN FULL BODY MOVEMENT?

The neck movement can be done with either Arena, or Expression, as the 3rd party application is where the blending of the 2 files would take place


8. Import the bvh file to poser
QUESTION: CAN POSER HAVE 2 BVH FILES APPLIED TO A CHARACTER ( I.E. FACE AND FULL BODY?)

Outside my current skill set


10. All the while adjusting keyframes that are bogus.
QUESTION: HOW DO YOU HANDLE A RIGID BODY IN POSER.

Not sure how Poser handles RB objects.

tvining
Posts: 126
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:24 am

Re: Optimum workflow?

Post by tvining » Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:27 am

Hey John,

I have an 8-camera system and animate using Poser, Daz figures, and render in Cinema 4D using InterPoser Pro. I used Arena for the shot where the character turns and sets down the cups in the sequence here:

http://www.auroratrek.com/part3_excerpt480x288.mov
or
http://www.auroratrek.com/part3_excerpt480x288.wmv


I'm looking forward to the Daz plugin as well. You're right about the bvh import to Daz or Poser being finicky. It seems like Arena's capture is good--when you capture and use Arena's editor to smooth the data it looks good and smooth in Arena--but I'm having some trouble getting the bvh cleanly into Poser--the translation seems to sometimes introduce some noise--so I'm hoping that the Daz plugin will give Arena a more direct export/import to the Daz figures. This problem seems to be somewhat less pronounced when the actor is moving quickly, so action moves seem to work well, so in that respect Arena as is allows for moves you'd never even attempt by hand.

As to your Poser questions:

4. I'd imagine that you'd end up with two distinct bvh files after doing a two-person capture, so you would just open Poser, bring in your two characters, and apply one bvh file to each one.

7. In the scenario below, you could either use the neck moves from the full body capture, or the facial capture (if it captures the neck), but not both.

8. As far as I know you can't apply a bvh file to a Poser character without overwriting the previous one. What you would probably do with the facial bvh file, however, is to import that onto your Poser figure first, then save that off in Poser as an animated Pose, but only export the Head motions (where the expressions are), close that file, then call up your figure again, apply the body motion bvh, then apply your facial Pose, which will only affect the head/face of your figure.

10. I've never tried RB.

--Tim

therasoft
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:32 am

Re: Optimum workflow?

Post by therasoft » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:36 pm

This is helpful guys. I appreciate your response.

Seems surprising that no one knows how rigid bodies are handled in poser given the comment in the forum that it was important to work with poser community.

Tim I appreciate your comments and I will look through it more.

Is there a encouraged workflow for arena software???

I am trying to figure out the best way to go from A to B. Poser does not seem to be the solution.

I would love to know who the natural point team favors as far as major 3d packages if anyone has any comments.

Thanks,

tvining
Posts: 126
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:24 am

Re: Optimum workflow?

Post by tvining » Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:30 pm

Well, NP is working with Daz, but I'm not sure how powerful Daz Studio is for editing motion. Poser has a workable keyframe editor, so I'm pretty sure that if we can get from Arena to Daz, we can get from Daz to Poser.

therasoft
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:32 am

Re: Optimum workflow?

Post by therasoft » Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:23 pm

Agreed with the Daz to Poser and back, I am just wondering is there a best case scenario? I have poser yes, but I also realize poser has some significant limitations. I am just wondering if natural point has considered a workflow that takes the least number of steps. This type of stuff is always left up to the consumer, but it would sure be nice if they elaborated on the " best approach" to facial and full body capture without having to go through a lot of different software packages. I sincerely appreciate the DAZ plugin--don't get me wrong! For example, I would appreciate an example of the best pipeline to capture and integrate facial mocap, full body mocap so that a person can actually generate usable characters. I just think it would be nice to know the best case. I.E. least difficult method of integrating multicharacter, multicapture scenarios. Any help is appreciated. I am looking for best case (i.e. least amount of in and out of different software packages). Is there one that can do it all well like motion builder?

Thanks for any help you can offer and or have offered.

twister
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:45 am

Re: Optimum workflow?

Post by twister » Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:34 am

hi, I found the best pipline for Arena is MotionBuilder 7.5 Ex2.

Jim
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Re: Optimum workflow?

Post by Jim » Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:07 pm

jez:

I really appreciate your post. I think that we should have some simple walk-throughs of how to generate usable characters in DAZ and Poser. For MB, we find that most users are set, they have a complex program and they have experience with it. We will work on this request.

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