I think the problem would be animations. As you said it would need special animations for the body strechting etc. Me myself as a modder for Half-Life knows how much time it takes to create good animations. And some people may see it as cheating because other players do not have the ability to look safely over a crate. This may cause the device to be banned from leagues and clan base/ladders. Thus creating 2 user groups and special allowd/banned servers of this device.
Just my 2 cents.
HALFLIFE2
Re: HALFLIFE2
good comments.
controlling real-time head/torso animations will probably require new engines, instead of engine mods.
And it won't be considered high priority to include such real-time functionality in the intial "engine-design" of a product, until everyone is already using it. sooo, this could be a long ways off.
just want to note the worst case scenario for a minute.
To get TrackIR built into Well-Known FPS games ASAP, we'll probably have to give up on the idea of constantly responsive head/torso animation.
I've read about new animation techniques (in the Unreal engine?) that blend between different predefined sequences on the fly, so that animators don't have to consider every situation. if this approach catches on, it seems like it might help us a lot.
http://www.ogre3d.org/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=62
http://www.unrealtechnology.com/flash/t ... /ue2.shtml (?)
http://www.epicgames.com/UnrealEngineNews.html
(cross fingers that this catches on quickly. hope hope)
(i do hope that by the end of the year we could at least have modders somehow remove the head from existing animations, and replace it with a head that moves in small amounts around a central neck point, based on TrackIR input. this small positioning modifier info could be passed over networks easily. it could scale from as little as "4 snap-to positions" to as much as "realtime insanely precise constantly" is that the technical term? heh. Predicting it wouldn't be necessary. Hickups wouldn't matter much because the rest of the body would be solid/predicted. I'm picturing it really just as an eye candy thing. a middle step)
i expect we will push for FPS devs to implement us in a subtle way to start. ie, you'll enjoy a little bit more immersion because the view moves a small amount away from your mouse in any direction/rotation. but it won't move enough to break the models and/or bounding boxes.
(ie you won't be able to look down enough to see the ends of your arm models and no body.
You won't be able to lean forward enough to poke through a wall).
For now, i don't think we want to risk scaring developers off by having TrackIR give it's users any big time advantage. I don't like the idea of castrating the device, now that it's so awesome, but asking the devs to totally rework their tools for animation, networking, and hit detection is A LOT TO ASK. (weeping).
we'll see though. anything can happen.
We're now beta testing some fps implementation mods, so i'd love to hear more ideas/thoughts about how to use TrackIR with Vector Expansion in a small way, that doesn't require crazy animations that are visible to other players.
(or talk about your dream implementation if you like. heh.)
[ March 30, 2005, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: NaturalPoint-Warren ]
controlling real-time head/torso animations will probably require new engines, instead of engine mods.
And it won't be considered high priority to include such real-time functionality in the intial "engine-design" of a product, until everyone is already using it. sooo, this could be a long ways off.
just want to note the worst case scenario for a minute.
To get TrackIR built into Well-Known FPS games ASAP, we'll probably have to give up on the idea of constantly responsive head/torso animation.
I've read about new animation techniques (in the Unreal engine?) that blend between different predefined sequences on the fly, so that animators don't have to consider every situation. if this approach catches on, it seems like it might help us a lot.
http://www.ogre3d.org/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=62
http://www.unrealtechnology.com/flash/t ... /ue2.shtml (?)
http://www.epicgames.com/UnrealEngineNews.html
(cross fingers that this catches on quickly. hope hope)
(i do hope that by the end of the year we could at least have modders somehow remove the head from existing animations, and replace it with a head that moves in small amounts around a central neck point, based on TrackIR input. this small positioning modifier info could be passed over networks easily. it could scale from as little as "4 snap-to positions" to as much as "realtime insanely precise constantly" is that the technical term? heh. Predicting it wouldn't be necessary. Hickups wouldn't matter much because the rest of the body would be solid/predicted. I'm picturing it really just as an eye candy thing. a middle step)
i expect we will push for FPS devs to implement us in a subtle way to start. ie, you'll enjoy a little bit more immersion because the view moves a small amount away from your mouse in any direction/rotation. but it won't move enough to break the models and/or bounding boxes.
(ie you won't be able to look down enough to see the ends of your arm models and no body.
You won't be able to lean forward enough to poke through a wall).
For now, i don't think we want to risk scaring developers off by having TrackIR give it's users any big time advantage. I don't like the idea of castrating the device, now that it's so awesome, but asking the devs to totally rework their tools for animation, networking, and hit detection is A LOT TO ASK. (weeping).
we'll see though. anything can happen.
We're now beta testing some fps implementation mods, so i'd love to hear more ideas/thoughts about how to use TrackIR with Vector Expansion in a small way, that doesn't require crazy animations that are visible to other players.
(or talk about your dream implementation if you like. heh.)
[ March 30, 2005, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: NaturalPoint-Warren ]
Re: HALFLIFE2
Well, im now suggesting a old engine but a engine that has proven itself. The Half-Life engine(1)
Its a heavily modifyed quake engine and at the moment its almost as good as a quake 3 engine, meanly because the modding community is extremely resourcefull, and then in special one: The Spirit of half-Life modification, this MOD is a mod for modder, they created reflective water shaders, real time reflective mirrors and heaps of more effects people couldnt imagine seeing in the half-life engine.
Here is their website:
http://spirit.valve-erc.com/
For the water effects etc. you have to look in the forums.
Why do i bring this up? Because they got some experienced coders whom have proven themselves and enjoy working/improving the Half-Life engine. Imagine if there able to inegrate this system in Singleplayer, the populair mods would probably update the dll's and there you have a whole new community, and the big advantage is that you do not need any new animations, because it wont be a multiplayer option.
There would be only one problem, they first will need a TrackIR and they need to be motivated and see the possibility's. Im expecting my TIR Somewhere in the next few days so im very eager to try it out.
But im no coder, i can do moddeling, mapping and texturing but i do not have any experience coding wiht the hl engine in c++.
Edit: Dont bother using the contact page becuase laurie cheers lost the source to his project so its community driven. And he doesnt maintain updates etc. anymore because RARE offered him a job and he took(lucky guy).
[ March 31, 2005, 03:46 AM: Message edited by: pepper ]
Its a heavily modifyed quake engine and at the moment its almost as good as a quake 3 engine, meanly because the modding community is extremely resourcefull, and then in special one: The Spirit of half-Life modification, this MOD is a mod for modder, they created reflective water shaders, real time reflective mirrors and heaps of more effects people couldnt imagine seeing in the half-life engine.
Here is their website:
http://spirit.valve-erc.com/
For the water effects etc. you have to look in the forums.
Why do i bring this up? Because they got some experienced coders whom have proven themselves and enjoy working/improving the Half-Life engine. Imagine if there able to inegrate this system in Singleplayer, the populair mods would probably update the dll's and there you have a whole new community, and the big advantage is that you do not need any new animations, because it wont be a multiplayer option.
There would be only one problem, they first will need a TrackIR and they need to be motivated and see the possibility's. Im expecting my TIR Somewhere in the next few days so im very eager to try it out.
But im no coder, i can do moddeling, mapping and texturing but i do not have any experience coding wiht the hl engine in c++.
Edit: Dont bother using the contact page becuase laurie cheers lost the source to his project so its community driven. And he doesnt maintain updates etc. anymore because RARE offered him a job and he took(lucky guy).
[ March 31, 2005, 03:46 AM: Message edited by: pepper ]
Re: HALFLIFE2
I was just thinking that the panning should take much work, for those of you that have played Half-Life they know the scientists around blackmesa look at you when you walk by ore when you are nearby. This is not done through a animation but by a special command/slider. This is controlled by the AI of the game. here is the example:
The head in the normal position:
http://img30.exs.cx/img30/4218/normalhead0bp.jpg
The head looking left:
http://img30.exs.cx/img30/2899/lookleft3da.jpg
And looking right:
http://img30.exs.cx/img30/6670/lookright2ed.jpg
I applyed this to the running animation, but afaik it can be applied to most of the basic animations.
And if a 'old' game as Half-Life already supports this then a new/modern game shouldnt have a problem with it.
One of those games that shows the head moving before the weapon is Battlefield 1942. Though this isnt applyed in the first person view but in the third person view.
I think this shows its possible and that it shouldnt take to much time to get it to work. Though i cant be sure of that statement.
The head in the normal position:
http://img30.exs.cx/img30/4218/normalhead0bp.jpg
The head looking left:
http://img30.exs.cx/img30/2899/lookleft3da.jpg
And looking right:
http://img30.exs.cx/img30/6670/lookright2ed.jpg
I applyed this to the running animation, but afaik it can be applied to most of the basic animations.
And if a 'old' game as Half-Life already supports this then a new/modern game shouldnt have a problem with it.
One of those games that shows the head moving before the weapon is Battlefield 1942. Though this isnt applyed in the first person view but in the third person view.
I think this shows its possible and that it shouldnt take to much time to get it to work. Though i cant be sure of that statement.
Re: HALFLIFE2
I found the player model that is used in multiplayer also has serval subcontrollers that can be used in all animations. So i think its possible to implement something.
Re: HALFLIFE2
just curious pepper, did you create those poses are they taken right out of the game?
[ April 01, 2005, 08:43 AM: Message edited by: awz10 ]
[ April 01, 2005, 08:43 AM: Message edited by: awz10 ]
Re: HALFLIFE2
There taken in Half-Life Modelviewer, you can open the models of hl wiht that program wihtout being in the game itself.
And i openend the running animation of the scientist and used a bone controller to rotate the head.
And i openend the running animation of the scientist and used a bone controller to rotate the head.
Re: HALFLIFE2
fascinating, Pepper!
i have sent this info on to our programmers to see if it'd help them.
(work has resumed on our HL2 mod. hopefully have something polished for yall by the end of the month, E3 permitting.)
BTW, If anyone here wants to be intrinsically involved in the development/testing of FPS stuff, i'd suggest joining our beta tester team.
[ April 04, 2005, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: NaturalPoint-Warren ]
i have sent this info on to our programmers to see if it'd help them.
(work has resumed on our HL2 mod. hopefully have something polished for yall by the end of the month, E3 permitting.)
BTW, If anyone here wants to be intrinsically involved in the development/testing of FPS stuff, i'd suggest joining our beta tester team.
[ April 04, 2005, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: NaturalPoint-Warren ]
-
orbtechsims
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:00 am
Re: HALFLIFE2
quote:Originally posted by NaturalPoint-Warren:
BTW, If anyone here wants to be intrinsically involved in the development/testing of FPS stuff, i'd suggest joining our beta tester team.Warren, terrific news that work on the HL2 mod has started once more. Are the controls the same as I posted on this form? If they have changed could you post the revised control pattern?
The beta tester team is defiantly something I would like to be a part of, how does one join?
[ April 06, 2005, 07:49 AM: Message edited by: orbtechsims ]
BTW, If anyone here wants to be intrinsically involved in the development/testing of FPS stuff, i'd suggest joining our beta tester team.Warren, terrific news that work on the HL2 mod has started once more. Are the controls the same as I posted on this form? If they have changed could you post the revised control pattern?
The beta tester team is defiantly something I would like to be a part of, how does one join?
[ April 06, 2005, 07:49 AM: Message edited by: orbtechsims ]
Re: HALFLIFE2
Tell me, how is this mod called and what will it be about? I havent touched hl2 modding yet but i read serval things about it, and some friends are working on hl2 mods.