Hello all.
We are not able to get all 6 cameras (from the foundation package) running at the same time:
There are 2 powered hubs with 3 cams each connected to a Mac Pro (core 2 duo, 2.6 GHz Win XP SP2), but regardless of the order used to plug in the USB cables, at most 5 cameras are found by the calibration wizard of arena - but the missing camera is not always the same one.
What is also annoying: whenever the cams are plugged in, Win XP reports new hardware found and wants to load drivers for it (?), for the sixth cam, this does not happen - instead XP reports that there may be a problem with the hardware.
Since not always the same cam is failing, we suspect a power problem. Has anybody encountered similar problems?
We are actually also not happy about the arena software: there does no seem to be a manual: e.g. it is unclear what the red or greenish blue boundaries around the camera windows mean when trying to calibrate wrt the ground plane. For a software of that price I would expect a detailed manual, explaining the meaning of such things, instead of keeping the user guessing.
Also, we first tried to install on another PC (3 GHz Pentium 4)
and nothing happend: after registration the software just would
not start - not a hint about what was going on, or that the hardware was insufficient.
-- Juergen
Trouble setting up: at most 5 of 6 cameras come up
Re: Trouble setting up: at most 5 of 6 cameras come up
Have you tried switching out USB cables?
What type of hub are you using?
Have you watched the ARENA� Motion Capture Software Tutorials?
http://www.naturalpoint.com/optitrack/p ... #tutorials
The red boxes around teach camera view indicate stray IR sources.
On the other system, the units would not detect at all?
What type of hub are you using?
Have you watched the ARENA� Motion Capture Software Tutorials?
http://www.naturalpoint.com/optitrack/p ... #tutorials
The red boxes around teach camera view indicate stray IR sources.
On the other system, the units would not detect at all?
Re: Trouble setting up: at most 5 of 6 cameras come up
Yes, we did switch cables - this did not have any effect. The cam not working was even not always on the same hub (we use the D-Link hubs from the foundation package, with power supplies with the same output specs, but for 220 V)
For the other system (3 GHz P4, XP): we did not even get that far:
When clicking on the arena icon, nothing happened - not even a window opened, though the process list showed arena as running.
At this time, I am more concerned with getting all 6 cams up and running. Thanks for the hint with the video - calibration seems a bit clearer, so I want to revisit that part after I got 6 cams.
Also, most of the time 5 cams came up - sometime only 4 or even 2 came up, sometime the registration cam could not be found and Arena would not start.
For the other system (3 GHz P4, XP): we did not even get that far:
When clicking on the arena icon, nothing happened - not even a window opened, though the process list showed arena as running.
At this time, I am more concerned with getting all 6 cams up and running. Thanks for the hint with the video - calibration seems a bit clearer, so I want to revisit that part after I got 6 cams.
Also, most of the time 5 cams came up - sometime only 4 or even 2 came up, sometime the registration cam could not be found and Arena would not start.
Re: Trouble setting up: at most 5 of 6 cameras come up
How many units are showing up in the Device Manager?
What version of the software are you running?
Max USB cable length, at any one point? From the hubs to the computer?
What version of the software are you running?
Max USB cable length, at any one point? From the hubs to the computer?
Re: Trouble setting up: at most 5 of 6 cameras come up
Hello:
Sorry to hear about these setup issues.
You are correct, we first need to get the cameras to show up properly and then we can tackle the rest of the setup. Check the Device Manager to see if all 6 cameras show up, if they do not, that is the first problem to fix.
I suspect there must be an issue with the Hubs or the power supplies to them. I think it should be fine to use a different AC adapter to get the same 5V, 3.5amp output for the Hubs, but something seems wrong here.
We have heard of a similar issue before, and the problem turned out to be the hubs. Can you try some local USB 2.0 Powered Hubs that come with 220V adapters?
I don't believe the problem is with the Cameras or the software at this time.
We use a similar MacBook Pro here, so I don't think that is the issue.
Arena doesn't come with a printed manual. We do have our extensive online tutorials to get people started, as we thought this was easier to understand than a manual. The software is evolving rapidly, and videos are a good way to update the content quickly. I believe we will do a written manual in the future.
Sorry to hear about these setup issues.
You are correct, we first need to get the cameras to show up properly and then we can tackle the rest of the setup. Check the Device Manager to see if all 6 cameras show up, if they do not, that is the first problem to fix.
I suspect there must be an issue with the Hubs or the power supplies to them. I think it should be fine to use a different AC adapter to get the same 5V, 3.5amp output for the Hubs, but something seems wrong here.
We have heard of a similar issue before, and the problem turned out to be the hubs. Can you try some local USB 2.0 Powered Hubs that come with 220V adapters?
I don't believe the problem is with the Cameras or the software at this time.
We use a similar MacBook Pro here, so I don't think that is the issue.
Arena doesn't come with a printed manual. We do have our extensive online tutorials to get people started, as we thought this was easier to understand than a manual. The software is evolving rapidly, and videos are a good way to update the content quickly. I believe we will do a written manual in the future.
Re: Trouble setting up: at most 5 of 6 cameras come up
Hello Jim,
I switched machines and installed Win XP on my MacBook Pro.
There I did not have any problem initializing the cameras: all 6 where found without problem (same hubs were used, but no sync cables were yet attached to the cameras)
I think the problem on the Mac Pro was that the camera drivers were not installed - though I do not understand why most cameras worked nevertheless.
It will be a few days before I, resp. my students (as the summer semester starts next week), can continue to get things up and running.
I switched machines and installed Win XP on my MacBook Pro.
There I did not have any problem initializing the cameras: all 6 where found without problem (same hubs were used, but no sync cables were yet attached to the cameras)
I think the problem on the Mac Pro was that the camera drivers were not installed - though I do not understand why most cameras worked nevertheless.
It will be a few days before I, resp. my students (as the summer semester starts next week), can continue to get things up and running.
-
andremalan
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:46 pm
Re: Trouble setting up: at most 5 of 6 cameras come up
Hello there - I think I may be able to shed some light on the problem. We just recieved a 24-camera system and set it up for the first time over the weekend. First problem - Naturalpoint supplied us with 110v PSU's for the D-link hubs which was amusing and frustrating at the same time since we're in South Africa on 220v, but we soon got over it and bought 4 220VAC~5VDC 3A converters to power the system at an additional cost of $190...thanks guys, we're suffering in a 3rd World country here... AND there were no active extension cables or marker mounts in my package!! And that's not the end of my order problems either.
Anyway, after powering up the system, we experienced the same intermittent issues with only 6 cameras attached initially. We tried multiple configurations and initiation sequences and still could only get 5/6 cameras up at the same time. After monitoring the current load for each camera and finding a relatively consistent 490mA per device(Device Manager, Generic USB HUB Properties) we tested the hub output voltages under load and found variations of up to 0.7v depending on how many cameras were attached. The camera displays were also on and off intermittently, but worked when plugged directly into the Arena host machine - that led us to believe that the cameras were not getting the best power from the setup we had. We were however, able to calibrate and do some limited 34 marker capture tests with 5 cameras producing fair results.
By the way - these D-Link hubs are cheap & nasty little suckers and don't really inspire a whole lot of confidence in the rest of the solution. I think that Naturalpoint can do a lot better than that - and I don't think clients will mind paying a bit more for something that actually works properly. After all, it's the reputation of their product that takes a beating when customers have problems...anyway - ranting aside...
Today we bought 4 Targus ACH90UK hubs at an additional cost of $230 and the system powered up perfectly with 18 cameras on 3 hubs (We're testing the other 6 in a seperate facial capture studio later this week). Even the camera displays initiated and reported accurately without any drama...we were a bit happier after that.
Initial calibration tests report 'excellent' on 11 of 12 selected cameras, 'good' on the other 1. We're still trying to refine the mounting system for the remaining 6 cameras and will be adding these within the next day or so.
Hope this helps.
Test System:
18x V100
Dual Quadcore Xeon 5420
8GB DDR3 RAM
Geforce 9800GX2
Intel Vernonia Mainboard
Intel Pilot Point Server Chassis + 2x 670w PSU
Windows XP 64bit SP3
Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime Library 2005 SP1
Optitrack Arena Version 1.3.035
Anyway, after powering up the system, we experienced the same intermittent issues with only 6 cameras attached initially. We tried multiple configurations and initiation sequences and still could only get 5/6 cameras up at the same time. After monitoring the current load for each camera and finding a relatively consistent 490mA per device(Device Manager, Generic USB HUB Properties) we tested the hub output voltages under load and found variations of up to 0.7v depending on how many cameras were attached. The camera displays were also on and off intermittently, but worked when plugged directly into the Arena host machine - that led us to believe that the cameras were not getting the best power from the setup we had. We were however, able to calibrate and do some limited 34 marker capture tests with 5 cameras producing fair results.
By the way - these D-Link hubs are cheap & nasty little suckers and don't really inspire a whole lot of confidence in the rest of the solution. I think that Naturalpoint can do a lot better than that - and I don't think clients will mind paying a bit more for something that actually works properly. After all, it's the reputation of their product that takes a beating when customers have problems...anyway - ranting aside...
Today we bought 4 Targus ACH90UK hubs at an additional cost of $230 and the system powered up perfectly with 18 cameras on 3 hubs (We're testing the other 6 in a seperate facial capture studio later this week). Even the camera displays initiated and reported accurately without any drama...we were a bit happier after that.
Initial calibration tests report 'excellent' on 11 of 12 selected cameras, 'good' on the other 1. We're still trying to refine the mounting system for the remaining 6 cameras and will be adding these within the next day or so.
Hope this helps.
Test System:
18x V100
Dual Quadcore Xeon 5420
8GB DDR3 RAM
Geforce 9800GX2
Intel Vernonia Mainboard
Intel Pilot Point Server Chassis + 2x 670w PSU
Windows XP 64bit SP3
Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime Library 2005 SP1
Optitrack Arena Version 1.3.035
Re: Trouble setting up: at most 5 of 6 cameras come up
Hello:
Thank you for posting about your initial impressions.
We are aware of the USB power brick not having support for 220V, and we feel it should be remedied on our part. We will have a solution for this problem shortly.
Also, sorry to hear about the missing items from your order. There is nothing more frustrating than getting something fun in the mail and having it be missing a part. I will check the order and with the shipping department to better understand this issue.
USB hubs are not very good these days, the DLink ones are plastic, but they are pretty reliable. We have shipped thousands of them and have not had any come back that I know of. We are always looking for better equipment and I will get a Targus hub on order.
Thank you for posting about your initial impressions.
We are aware of the USB power brick not having support for 220V, and we feel it should be remedied on our part. We will have a solution for this problem shortly.
Also, sorry to hear about the missing items from your order. There is nothing more frustrating than getting something fun in the mail and having it be missing a part. I will check the order and with the shipping department to better understand this issue.
USB hubs are not very good these days, the DLink ones are plastic, but they are pretty reliable. We have shipped thousands of them and have not had any come back that I know of. We are always looking for better equipment and I will get a Targus hub on order.
-
andremalan
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:46 pm
Re: Trouble setting up: at most 5 of 6 cameras come up
Hi Jim - thank you for your replies and support. Case has been fantastic and sent me a detailed account of how you guys are resolving the problem and I am most happy and impressed with the level of service from NaturalPoint thus far.
The missing order items have not been too much of an issue, but I'd like to get your advice on new markers - check your email for details.
I hear you on the hubs not being very good these days - the best ones we found were here http://www.digi.com/products/usb/hubportspecs.jsp , but they're quite pricy at $140 each. I've never found issue with D-Link products either, but have only ever used their wireless range.
The Targus U.S equivalent of the ones we're using is ACH81US | Targus Desktop USB 2.0 7-Port Hub.
Regards
Andre
The missing order items have not been too much of an issue, but I'd like to get your advice on new markers - check your email for details.
I hear you on the hubs not being very good these days - the best ones we found were here http://www.digi.com/products/usb/hubportspecs.jsp , but they're quite pricy at $140 each. I've never found issue with D-Link products either, but have only ever used their wireless range.
The Targus U.S equivalent of the ones we're using is ACH81US | Targus Desktop USB 2.0 7-Port Hub.
Regards
Andre
Re: Trouble setting up: at most 5 of 6 cameras come up
Thanks for the product info, I will track down those hubs.
just so you know, I haven't seen the email on the markers just yet.
just so you know, I haven't seen the email on the markers just yet.