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I for one, not a very experienced flight simulator user granted, can not understand the issue? We are all "flying" on a computer right? We are all compensating for the loss of what we cant be able to experience?

How could this be wrong? It feels totally natural to me? Why restrict the expereince when it is good as it is? it�s not like we have total field of view just looking forward, is it? should we ban monitors then? Just because they are not realistic?

Common...This is silly. This implimentention is awesome. and lets you get more involved. More so than restricting the view. Isn�t that what we are after? A more involving experience?

One can not be serious saying looking 180 degrees at each side is "unrealistic" while at the same time having a 17" monitor 3 feets ahead of one self? really?

Thomas

[edit] ofcourse using a Hotas setup is cheating vs joystick then? or a keyboard? Ok so you have a sportscar, but that doesn�t make you faster than my new fiat? The whole trackIR cheating stuff is getting more and more boaring the more i read about it. Ok, so one can say one can�t afford it? But having a computer being good enough to run il2 FB will cost 10 times the amount of this device...

just a note. As in all vetures one gets into in life, one has to be ready for it. I wouldn�t enter my fiat in the upcoming f1 race for instance

And i think a p90 user with 64 meg ram and a 20 meg hd, would think more then twise about trying to intsall il2 FB battles as well. So where to draw the line? is there one? I bet there is and has been many frustrated users upgading there CPU graphics card because the seamed to be at a disadvantage at the time.

Unrealistic before? Ofcourse, anything not providing lower than 30fps is not being accepted as "realistc" And if only getting 1 fps at most with my p90 system, having trackIR or not then I am in an dissevantage.

I demand you all to use my system so we all can be fair!

Seriously, it It really is a birth of a new era. And I just see it as plain silly to look down on all the things one is currently missing, driving a reasonable computer.

The developers providing hardware. It might again being down to your system being infirior in the end? This is evolution. Dont blame invovators for providing those. And if keep pointing at faults, that really isn�t fault�s, shure make them spen less time on perfecting other areas of it.

I for one certanily will not, since what I said above. The implimentetan is fantastic. No more unreal then me setting in my computer room, looking at my monitor. That IS undeal! Now go get a trackIR device, if you think you are infirior not using it [end edit]

[ March 13, 2003, 07:45 PM: Message edited by: ThomasH ]

So, let me get this straight.

Who feels being able to look upside down 180 deg. backwards is an advantage? Um, do you think it makes it easier to check your six with the same view you get looking over your shoulder only upside down??

The only difference with FOV you get over mouse emulation in IL2/FB is about an extra 3 or 4 degrees to look 180 degrees straight back.

Woohoo!

So I guess pilots couldn't or didn't twist their body around to see straight out the back? And doesn't there have to be some concessions for seeing around struts?

Yes, yes, mousers/hatters don't get that view (which they probably should) but why castrate TIR view?

Now, to clarify, I would prefer to have restricted views from the likes of looking 180 degrees upside down at your seat cushion purely for that immersive suspension of disbelief but as a significant tactical advantage?

If anything, petition Oleg to give a 180 degree hat view, although it would have to incurr some panning time.

Personally, the greatest advantage leap is enhanced mode. It's an absolute godsend.

S!

The ability to look back 180 degs is a definite advantage vs those who don't have that ability. Try zooming in on a bogey visible in rear quarter but too far away to identify with normal or wide view. You can't do this with mouseview or hatpanning. You can do this with trackIR in enhanced mode. Pretty important ability if you have to decide whether to turn around and face the the incoming threat from behind, or fight the bandits in front because you identified the aircraft from behind as friendly.

I'm not against Linda Blair view per se. But if it's only available for trackIR owners it rubs me the wrong way. There are imo other methods to compensate better for the lack of field of view. (very simple: increase the field of view)

The ability to pan your view up and all the way to the back or down and all the way to the back is not an advantage, it is simply arcade. However i already know i could get used to using it effectively if i want to play it the arcade way.

But let's not lose focus on what the trackIR accomplishes. It gives us the ability to move our heads in flightsims to move our view. And as a longtime flightsimmer myself, i've always considered it as a giant step forwards towards more realism and immersion in that regard. There's no way a pilot would look between his legs to see what's behind him. That is ridiculous. That is taking a step backwards away from more realism and immersion.

It's about we have an advantage over non_TIR users - that isn't right.

What if i bought video Card X and could see through clouds, or walls, etc...???

Same thing here folks.

1. Either turn it on for all FB users or
2. Turn this off for TIR users.

Either way - but at least make it the same please!!!!

re:...a post in Oleg's Ready Room ...

This is good news, (not the part about Oleg not having a trackIR yet.) The message got through quickly.

trackIR is such a brilliant invention I would not want to see it get a bad name because of it breaking principles of fairness in IL2:FB, so this fix is important.

trackIR is simply the best way to look around in a game!

We finally get enhanced trackIR implemented in a game and the loudest posts in the IL2 board and here are people saying take something away. Keep it up folks by all means and maybe we can even get Oleg to remove trackIR support altogether... wait I know, let's take the panning view out also so people without a mouse aren't called cheaters because they can smoothly pan around and not have to use snap views... hey while we're at it remove hotas control capability, followed by joysticks then get back to real immersion with a keyboard...

Unbelievable... if anything we should be pushing even harder for MORE trackIR usability features so everyone has to buy the thing to keep up with their neighbor, NOT dumb it down. Next we'll see people saying not to create the true 3d cockpit so people with 2 trackIRs can't lean and move around the struts to see better! GIVE ME A BREAK PEOPLE! We want to push the envelope ahead not backwards!

BTW going upside down in your seat simply gives you a backward/upside down view of the back of your seat. Nothing enhanced at all.

Wouldn't it be fair to set it up as a toggle in the Difficulty section i.e., "6-View - On/Off"? That way whoever's hosting an online game could set the parameters that all pilots would have to follow and it's not unfair to anyone.

I know that I can sit with my back firmly against the chair and look over my shoulder and see what's directly behind me, albeit in my peripheral vision. Perhaps the view could stop with the 6 o'clock position near the edge of the screen instead of directly in the middle to approximate the peripheral vision area.

BTW, just read a post in Oleg's Ready Room where he says that he was unaware of this because he doesn't have a trackIR. Maybe you folks should send him one ASAP, if you haven't already.

Here's a copy of his post:

I will look into it.
I didn't saw it myself becasue I do not use such device.
Ther trackIR pan isn't the same as mouse pan in our code. It is separate code.

If it will be possible - we'll fix it later

Oleg Maddox
1C:Maddox Games

I recall NP sending him a TIR months ago...