Upgrade to IRIII form IRII...

[DocLotus]

I agree, it is a very fine line indeed.

What I was thinking was something on the order of a low-cost upgrade for IRII customers... just a little over the companies real cost. No need to give it away, no profit in that, but at a price that the company could still make a small profit on & the end user would not feel like he bought too soon.

I don't know about other owners but I would also buy some more accessories with the IRIII; there would be some more profit in that.

Would be great customer good will

[ May 13, 2004, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: DocLotus ]

[Charlie251]

Have you ever thought that the price they are selling the items at are already at a 'low profit' state and not a 'huge profit' one?

I can personally vouch for the cost of imaging cmos chips, production costs, paying employees, paying rent, the cost of research..... and I run a much smaller business than NP.

So I would be careful in assuming the posted prices are not already at a 'low profit' price.

Now, after you get this discount, do you keep the TrackIR2 as well? If not, then what would NP do with a used unit? They couldnt sell it as a new unit. So the price of it used, IF it would even sell, would be drastically less... assuming the TrackIR2 units they get back were in a condition to sell. Then, what kind of warantee would they give with it?

This is giving me a headache just thinking about it.

[Charlie251]

Hey Doc,

Good reply. I was hoping you did not take my post as an attack as it was definitly not one.

I will say that you have a point in some regard to this. It is rough for those that just got a TIR2 and now the TIR3 is out.

However, as it has been pointed out before, the TIR3 came along as a surprise (even to me). Even if it didnt, there is a fine line that a company walks when making choices regarding this sort of thing.

First off, there is the profit aspect. Without that, there would be no future TrackIR or the interaction between NP and the developers to get support in the games for it. Secondly, how much and how to do it? How long back should they look to give discounts?

Either way, for all the different reasons, they will never make everyone happy. I think that the support they give is worth the 'cheap' cost of the TIR2 and TIR3. I have read many users comments saying they would gladly pay more for the TrackIR for the realism and joy they get from using it.

Its a fine line. Glad I do not need to make that choice.

[DocLotus]

Hi Charlie;

Where there is a will, there is a way (someone once said).

Have no idea what they would do with used IRII’s; maybe sell them cheaply to third world countries like some computer manufacturers did in the 80’s with used computers. This got a lot of computers into the hands of people that otherwise could not afford them. Kind of like selling used cars which has a very large market.

ATI & other video card makers always have trade in programs running; again I have no idea what they do with the used ones, maybe sell them on e-Bay in bulk or to third world electronic brokers. ATI wants to keep customers loyal & they also want their customers to keep upgrading to new ATI video cards, so the upgrade programs are always running. I am on my 5th ATI video card & would not even consider another brand as they have treated me very fairly & I know they want me to stay an ATI customer for life.

There are many options for manufacturers to make money with used equipment, unless the market becomes flooded which is not the case with IRII as it has been on the market for such as short time.

Many, many companies have trade-in, trade-up programs running & most find it to be profitable with much repeat business & customer loyalty.

[JD114T9]

quote: DocLotus

Where there is a will, there is a way (someone once said).
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Well DocLotus, I dont honestly think this rule applies here do you?

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quote: DocLotus

Have no idea what they would do with used IRII�s; maybe sell them cheaply to third world countries like some computer manufacturers did in the 80�s with used computers. This got a lot of computers into the hands of people that otherwise could not afford them. Kind of like selling used cars which has a very large market.
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Can you honestly say that when you received your new shiny new ( not second hand ) TIR2 that you were dissatisfied with it?

Or did you rub your hands together and think how lucky you were to wait for the IR2 to come to the market so that you could enjoy the benefits of a new ( electronics ) design and updated software?

No need to answer that one, because I think we both know the answer.

Now whilst I am a new member and owner of the new Track IR3 Pro, I can empathise with you with regards to your purchase of the TIR2 only to have it superceeded shortly afterwards by a new model...but these things happen.

Video cards change all the time, infact, when you bought your last one from ATI didn't you know that it was already obsolete?

Can I ask ( it's non of my buisness I know ) if you took advantage of the recent sale of TIR2 units? If so then you must surely have thought that you were getting a good deal.

If your TIR2 worked as you exspected it to, then what is the problem?

I dont mean to cause any bad feelings or step on any toes here, but you have to realise that companies are there to make a profit ( I'm sure you do ) and for Natural Point to take you up on your offer to them seems...well...let me put it this way....If 3rd world countries are crying out for old PC equipment, how far down the road do you think they are to getting hold of cutting edge tracking gear? Your argument or sugestions don't stand up I'm afraid....sorry.

I suppose that I am lucky in not jumping on NPs offer of a TIR2...it was very tempting.

If you bought your TIR2 sometime ago and you weren't satisfied, then why didn't you send it back?

Do you think that I am going to be upset if in four months time Natural point had to do the same again for TIR3 and TIR3 PRO owners because of hardware upgrades they had to purchase because of non availability of the current ones?

No is my answer....Why? cos that's life in a very volatile and changing market.

I haven't set my TIR3 pro up yet and probably the only way that I will send it back is if I find a fault with it when I do set it up...either now or up to a years time.

I took the time to order some gear while I was at it...cap...dots etc. Everything is in order and I feel satisfied with my purchase.
If I am annoyed about anything, it's not ordering another TIR cap as I think that the quality is great.
So at least from this quarter of the world...England... all I can say at this point is Thanyou Natural Point for a very speedy delivery and for a quality built product.

As I said before, I haven't set the TIR3 pro up yet, but I know that I will be satisfied with my purchase even if in the future I find that it is no longer the current model to own...Why...because it works for me now and I may not be here tomorrow.

No offence intended to any current TIR2 owners....and Sorry for this long post, but being a new member, I have some catching up to do

I have nothing to do with Natural Point or anyone concerned with its manufacture.

[ May 14, 2004, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: JD114T9 ]

[DocLotus]

Hi JD;

That's all great but as I said before ATI & other hardware vendors have on-going rebates, trade-ins, trade-ups & ect all the time so why not on Track IR?

I can trade in my ATI video card at any time for a newer model & save some money in the process with ATI’s trade-in program.

It has nothing to do with the reliability or my satisfaction of IRII, just that it would be nice if there was a trade-in for old IR’s, that’s’ all.

And yes, we all know that a company has to make a profit to stay in business but that is not what I am talking about. If companies such as ATI & others can offer trade-ins & still make money why not here?

[JD114T9]

Hi DocLotus

I may have gotten a bit side tracked with some of the other posts in my reply to you. This post has grown some aswell...sorry.

May I say simply...I imagine the size of the company ( NP specialise one maybe two products )...and the ATI design of graphics chips are more abundant ( many more models in their portfolio).
All these things that you have mentioned are known to be disposable components anyway and just because one manufacturer follows one route doesn't mean that everyone else should... ATI are BIG...and can probably do what they do because their boards are...dare I say...are overpriced to start with.

But if you think that you are getting a good deal, then continue to support them.
You have to ask yourself...does anyone else make a product like NP. Were you happy with your TRI2 before you knew of TRI3s existance?
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If its down to customer relations, then all I can say is...If you had purchased a TRI2 but it hadn't been dispatched to you at the time of the new TRI3/pro units being produced.
Then it would be nice to be asked by NP if one would want to upgrade to the newer unit at no extra cost before your order was dispatched. The choice would be up to you.
As far as I know, this has been done with one person at least...maybe more.

But for people whose TRI2s have already been ordered and dispatched, then you would probably be out of luck I'm afraid. This seems to be the case and you can't blame NP for someone else designing a new TIR senser chip which NP uses now can you?

If I am wrong about the above, then no doubt someone will say something and put me right.

[Charlie251]

Now I have to ask.... What would a person in a third world country do with a TrackIR? Old computers can be used for anything. Old video cards can be used for most any task. These can be used for kids typing up reports or anything of that nature. But a TrackIR is specifically for gaming. I dont think the old computers and video cards these people receive will help them play a game. I dont think many of these peope have time to play a game. Kind of a, uhm...., moot point.

Secondly, many companies take in old circuit cards and recycle the material used in them. There is a company in my town that does this for other companies. They take cards, strip them down, and send the re-usable components and raw material (silver and copper) back to the company (or the company that manufactures that companies new stuff) that hired them to do it. The reason the TrackIR3 came out so quickly is because the parts inside of it changed. So, NP doesnt need to recycle old units.

This same topic came up with the TrackIR1 when the TrackIR2 came out. The answer was no then and is, while I cannot say for absolute sure but I am dang sure, still no.

Sorry, just the way business, technology, and the world works. If your unhappy, then dont buy the TrackIR3. But from using it for over 6 hours yesterday, I must say your going to miss out.

[DocLotus]

Hi Charlie;

So, you don’t think third world countries use Flight Sims? Don’t tell Microsoft that; they sell Flight Simulator in almost every country in the world. I think Microsoft would be pretty unhappy if they could not sell to Mexico, South America, Africa, Russia, China, or Middle Eastern counties.

Yes, they also use Flight Sims, but generally having a lower gross income they are often looking for a better deal. It is true that in many cases the Flight Sim may be pirated but you simply can’t pirate a unique piece of hardware such as TrackIR especially considering the low volume production; there would be no profit for the pirate to try to copy TrackIR. Usually, pirated hardware is limited to mass appeal devices such as CD’s, DVD’s, & software that can be sold in the thousands or millions.

As I said before, this has nothing to do with being unhappy or dissatisfied (which I am not), I simply think it would be great public relations. If selling used TrackIR’s makes a little more money for the Natural Point folks then it’s a win, win situation for all concerned.

I know this may all have come up before but I just wanted to express my thoughts on the subject; I don’t believe I’m alone on this issue of a trade-in, or trade-up program for TrackIR.

Thanks for your understanding.