S! Hopefully, I am not saving profile changes correctly because after it appears that no changes have taken effect in the game I go back to the tracker program and find that the setting are the same and have not changed.
Another poster mentioned the feeling of the potential immersion this tool can provide but currently I can't seem to make a new profile if my life depended on it. Should I not see the changes I made when I go back and look at a profile's different motions...the graphs? Thanks for any help you may provide~ Ned
[ June 04, 2004, 09:03 AM: Message edited by: ned ]
Frustrated
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Charlie251
- Posts: 955
- Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 5:00 am
- Location: Melbourne, Florida
Re: Frustrated
Hi Ned: Few questions for you....
What kind of changes are you making and how are you making them? I know it sounds like a dumb question, but sometimes users change the wrong settings or change something expecting to see a certain result that does not happen when something specific is changed.
Basically, what are you trying to do with it? Slow it down? Speed it up? Larger deadzone? Ect.
Also: What game are you using it in?
Have you tried any of the custom profiles listed on the NP main webpage?
Please answer and hopefully I can help.
What kind of changes are you making and how are you making them? I know it sounds like a dumb question, but sometimes users change the wrong settings or change something expecting to see a certain result that does not happen when something specific is changed.
Basically, what are you trying to do with it? Slow it down? Speed it up? Larger deadzone? Ect.
Also: What game are you using it in?
Have you tried any of the custom profiles listed on the NP main webpage?
Please answer and hopefully I can help.
Re: Frustrated
Hi Charlie. I'm trying to setup a good profile for Il2Fogooten Battles. I first tried the profile already provided fo FB but found it too fast and too sensitive. My view would zoom around without letting me really see anything. I think I'd have more success if I understood how the different motions effected the profile. The only one I really understand is the deadzone. The pdf manual doesn't really explain things. Currently, I have deadzone working pretty good but I need to learn how to slow my view when I attempt tp look around. When you make changes to the a profile and then return to the graphs of that profile, do you see the setting you made or do they appear to be defaulted? I'm not so sure my settings are being saved. Thanks ahead, Ned
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Charlie251
- Posts: 955
- Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 5:00 am
- Location: Melbourne, Florida
Re: Frustrated
OK, here we go. The short short version. Maybe one of the NP guys will copy this out and paste it in the FAQ somewhere if it isnt already (havent looked in a while).
Using Software Version 3.10:
Open the program and go to the MOTIONS page.
In the MOTIONS PRESET pop-down box, select CUSTOM.
Look for the radio button labeled GROUP EDIT POINTS which should be just above the smoothing slider. 'UNCHECK' this radio button. When you uncheck it, you should see a new slider appear labeled EDIT POINTS.
Click on the minus (-) button on the EDIT POINTS slider until the number to the right of the slider indicated zero (0).
Info Break: An edit point is a point that directly represents a physical position to the imaging camera in the TrackIR. Hypothetically: Think of the view of the TrackIR as a foot long ruler with the center on 6. Edit point 0 would be 6 on the ruler; dead center. Edit point 5 would coorespond to 4 and 8 on the ruler. It goes both directions from the center. This continues till edit point 50 is the 0 and 12 on the ruler. Now, what this means is that if you have edit points 0 through 5 set to zero, then you will get ZERO MOTION from the TrackIR while your dot position is between the 4 and 8 on the ruler. (Remember this is hypothetical and the numbers used are examples and not the exact placements in real life - this is for informational purposes only).
To setup a deadzone: A good deadzone has edit points 0 through 5 set to ZERO and edit point 10 set to a low number. You do not want to 'jump' into a high number coming off your deadzone. This will lead to a very jerky view.
To setup a nice slow progression with a deadzone: Set EP (edit points) 0 through 5 to 0, EP 10 to 2 or 3 and EP 20 approximatly 5 numbers higher than EP 10.
Try this setup right here. From EP 0 to EP 50:
0, 0, 0, 3, 8, 13, 20, 35
If you set your edit points to this, you will see a nice 'bowl curve' for your X and Y axis indicators next to the large box showing your dot placement.
Smoothing: Personally, with the faster unit (TrackIR3) I have found that less smoothing is needed than with the older units. I have mine set at 90 right now and can probably lower with no adverse affects. However, if it isnt broke, dont fix it!
I hope this has given you an idea on how the TrackIR motion settings work. Try my numbers above but if they feel odd, adjust them to fit your likes. The beauty of the TrackIR is that you can spend an hour tweaking it to make it perfect.
Make sure to save the profile after every change. You should be able to ALT-TAB out of the game, make changes, and see the effects right away.
If you are not, then let me know as that is a problem.
Using Software Version 3.10:
Open the program and go to the MOTIONS page.
In the MOTIONS PRESET pop-down box, select CUSTOM.
Look for the radio button labeled GROUP EDIT POINTS which should be just above the smoothing slider. 'UNCHECK' this radio button. When you uncheck it, you should see a new slider appear labeled EDIT POINTS.
Click on the minus (-) button on the EDIT POINTS slider until the number to the right of the slider indicated zero (0).
Info Break: An edit point is a point that directly represents a physical position to the imaging camera in the TrackIR. Hypothetically: Think of the view of the TrackIR as a foot long ruler with the center on 6. Edit point 0 would be 6 on the ruler; dead center. Edit point 5 would coorespond to 4 and 8 on the ruler. It goes both directions from the center. This continues till edit point 50 is the 0 and 12 on the ruler. Now, what this means is that if you have edit points 0 through 5 set to zero, then you will get ZERO MOTION from the TrackIR while your dot position is between the 4 and 8 on the ruler. (Remember this is hypothetical and the numbers used are examples and not the exact placements in real life - this is for informational purposes only).
To setup a deadzone: A good deadzone has edit points 0 through 5 set to ZERO and edit point 10 set to a low number. You do not want to 'jump' into a high number coming off your deadzone. This will lead to a very jerky view.
To setup a nice slow progression with a deadzone: Set EP (edit points) 0 through 5 to 0, EP 10 to 2 or 3 and EP 20 approximatly 5 numbers higher than EP 10.
Try this setup right here. From EP 0 to EP 50:
0, 0, 0, 3, 8, 13, 20, 35
If you set your edit points to this, you will see a nice 'bowl curve' for your X and Y axis indicators next to the large box showing your dot placement.
Smoothing: Personally, with the faster unit (TrackIR3) I have found that less smoothing is needed than with the older units. I have mine set at 90 right now and can probably lower with no adverse affects. However, if it isnt broke, dont fix it!
I hope this has given you an idea on how the TrackIR motion settings work. Try my numbers above but if they feel odd, adjust them to fit your likes. The beauty of the TrackIR is that you can spend an hour tweaking it to make it perfect.
Make sure to save the profile after every change. You should be able to ALT-TAB out of the game, make changes, and see the effects right away.
If you are not, then let me know as that is a problem.
Re: Frustrated
Charlie! Wow-that is the kind of information I needed to help me understand what those numbers mean to me and my tracker. Thank you! I'll give those numbers a try in the morning and let you know what happens. What motion controls the speed after you leave the deadzone and begin looking around? I can't tell what or how those other motions are controlling. I think I know what they do by their names but I'm not sure if I should really try making changes to them. The thing that really has me wondering is that when I go back to view my profile..it appears that all the setting have defaulted and I have not made any changes. Is this correct? In other words..when I return to my profile and open up the deadzone's motion graph, it appears as the same small dip in the graph as it was before I made changes to make it a much larger deadzone. Should it not show the change that I made and saved to the profile?
Re: Frustrated
Charlie,
Thanks Charlie
I have just arrived home and you got there before me.
Thanks Charlie
I have just arrived home and you got there before me.
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Charlie251
- Posts: 955
- Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 5:00 am
- Location: Melbourne, Florida
Re: Frustrated
Wayne: No problem. I like helping those with good attitudes. From other threads, you can see how much I like those with negative ones.....
Ned: Ill try to get each question....
Once you select CUSTOM and put in those numbers for the edit points, you need to stay on custom. All the other selections in that pop-down box are 'hard wired' and will never change regardless of what you do (without reverse engineering the software anyway). So if you switch back to deadzone or linear, you will not see any of the changes you made.
To ensure that your settings are saved, go to the PROFILES page and select <create new>. Then change the name to whatever you want it to be and click the SAVE button. When that is done, go to the MAIN screen and set the values there (Mouse Override, Run at Startup, Run Minimized, and Min to Tray) how you like them. As soon as this is done, go back to the PROFILES page and click SAVE again. Then go to the HOTKEY page, set your hotkeys how you want them, and go back to PROFILES and save.
Now go to the MOTION page and follow the instructions in the last post. Select Custom, ungroup the edit points, set the numbers, and then go back to the PROFILES page and save. ***Make sure that you leave the pop-down box set to custom*** Like I said, if you select any other preset, it will revert back to it and will not work the way you just set it up with these custom numbers I have given you.
Once this is completely done, save it one more time. Then go to the MAIN screen and make sure that the CURRENT PROFILE listing on the top right of the window shows the profile name that you selected when you created the new profile. Also, look at the bottom of the screen confirm that it shows the correct hotkeys that you selected.
At this point, you can minimize TrackIR software and go into the game and see how it works.
If you find my numbers to be a little too fast or too slow, then ALT-TAB back to the desktop, pull up the TrackIR software, adjust the numbers for edit points 10 through 50 either up or down depending on your likes, SAVE the profile leaving the pop-down box on CUSTOM, and go back into game to try it out.
OK, now that that is over.... lets look at your question regarding what controls the speed outside of the deadzone.
With the numbers I gave, the deadzone is edit points 0 through 5. At edit point 10, the actual motion begins. As you can see, it is set to 3. So, it is a 'slow' start. As you climb in edit points to 50, those numbers gradually get higher. So, as you proceede farther and farther from the center of the unit, you will see the speed of your view increase.
I think the problem you had with the deadzone not changing is that you went back to the deadzone selection in the motions preset pop-down box. I covered how to avoid this above and think that will clear up your problem. When you go back to the profile, you should always see the curve that you setup using the numbers above. That is why you have to leave CUSTOM as the motion preset.
Hope it helps. Let me know how it turns out.
Ned: Ill try to get each question....
Once you select CUSTOM and put in those numbers for the edit points, you need to stay on custom. All the other selections in that pop-down box are 'hard wired' and will never change regardless of what you do (without reverse engineering the software anyway). So if you switch back to deadzone or linear, you will not see any of the changes you made.
To ensure that your settings are saved, go to the PROFILES page and select <create new>. Then change the name to whatever you want it to be and click the SAVE button. When that is done, go to the MAIN screen and set the values there (Mouse Override, Run at Startup, Run Minimized, and Min to Tray) how you like them. As soon as this is done, go back to the PROFILES page and click SAVE again. Then go to the HOTKEY page, set your hotkeys how you want them, and go back to PROFILES and save.
Now go to the MOTION page and follow the instructions in the last post. Select Custom, ungroup the edit points, set the numbers, and then go back to the PROFILES page and save. ***Make sure that you leave the pop-down box set to custom*** Like I said, if you select any other preset, it will revert back to it and will not work the way you just set it up with these custom numbers I have given you.
Once this is completely done, save it one more time. Then go to the MAIN screen and make sure that the CURRENT PROFILE listing on the top right of the window shows the profile name that you selected when you created the new profile. Also, look at the bottom of the screen confirm that it shows the correct hotkeys that you selected.
At this point, you can minimize TrackIR software and go into the game and see how it works.
If you find my numbers to be a little too fast or too slow, then ALT-TAB back to the desktop, pull up the TrackIR software, adjust the numbers for edit points 10 through 50 either up or down depending on your likes, SAVE the profile leaving the pop-down box on CUSTOM, and go back into game to try it out.
OK, now that that is over.... lets look at your question regarding what controls the speed outside of the deadzone.
With the numbers I gave, the deadzone is edit points 0 through 5. At edit point 10, the actual motion begins. As you can see, it is set to 3. So, it is a 'slow' start. As you climb in edit points to 50, those numbers gradually get higher. So, as you proceede farther and farther from the center of the unit, you will see the speed of your view increase.
I think the problem you had with the deadzone not changing is that you went back to the deadzone selection in the motions preset pop-down box. I covered how to avoid this above and think that will clear up your problem. When you go back to the profile, you should always see the curve that you setup using the numbers above. That is why you have to leave CUSTOM as the motion preset.
Hope it helps. Let me know how it turns out.
Re: Frustrated
Charlie,
I spent Sunday morning testing. You were right.. I wasn't saving correctly because I was trying to edit some or all of the pop-downs under the custom tag. I tried your numbers and that was too fast too. I'm down to almost a flat line..0,0,0,1,3,7,3,1. What else might I change to get more sensitivity or slower reactions? This last setting works pretty good as long as I use the f10 toggle to steady up a view while I zoom in to see it but it would be great if could get even more control. Do you fly FB? I need to be able to steadily track a plane at all angles and zoom in to see what it is and which way it is going. If I'm late to look and see a nosecone I'm probably dead..lol! Thanks ahead, Ned
btw- even if I can't get it any better I'm happy to have your help getting me past total ignorance of this system! Thank You!!
[ June 07, 2004, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: ned ]
I spent Sunday morning testing. You were right.. I wasn't saving correctly because I was trying to edit some or all of the pop-downs under the custom tag. I tried your numbers and that was too fast too. I'm down to almost a flat line..0,0,0,1,3,7,3,1. What else might I change to get more sensitivity or slower reactions? This last setting works pretty good as long as I use the f10 toggle to steady up a view while I zoom in to see it but it would be great if could get even more control. Do you fly FB? I need to be able to steadily track a plane at all angles and zoom in to see what it is and which way it is going. If I'm late to look and see a nosecone I'm probably dead..lol! Thanks ahead, Ned
btw- even if I can't get it any better I'm happy to have your help getting me past total ignorance of this system! Thank You!!
[ June 07, 2004, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: ned ]
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Charlie251
- Posts: 955
- Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 5:00 am
- Location: Melbourne, Florida
Re: Frustrated
No problem Ned. Just glad I can help.
I just got AEP so I am going to test it out and see how it works. I am sure I will have to tweak it a little. I heard they changed the TrackIR slightly in it. We will see in a few minutes.
How close are you sitting to the unit? Having numbers that low and still having a fast response sounds like you are too close to the unit. Try either a smaller dot or moving the unit farther back from you. This will 'dulll' the amount of movement but will not effect response times. It should help in this regard. I sit about 2 foot from my unit.
I just got AEP so I am going to test it out and see how it works. I am sure I will have to tweak it a little. I heard they changed the TrackIR slightly in it. We will see in a few minutes.
How close are you sitting to the unit? Having numbers that low and still having a fast response sounds like you are too close to the unit. Try either a smaller dot or moving the unit farther back from you. This will 'dulll' the amount of movement but will not effect response times. It should help in this regard. I sit about 2 foot from my unit.
Re: Frustrated
ned,
I don�t want to interrupt.
If you could drop me an e-mail I will post you the profile that I am using for IL2 which includes the ACE add-on.
We have just finished the video (that will be up in a day or so) and was made using this profile.
I would like to add that Charlie is right about how close you are. If you are in a position try to move the unit at least 18 inches away, this works great for me.
If you are using a hat then take the peak into consideration when looking at the distance.
I don�t want to interrupt.
If you could drop me an e-mail I will post you the profile that I am using for IL2 which includes the ACE add-on.
We have just finished the video (that will be up in a day or so) and was made using this profile.
I would like to add that Charlie is right about how close you are. If you are in a position try to move the unit at least 18 inches away, this works great for me.
If you are using a hat then take the peak into consideration when looking at the distance.