Does anyone know if the WIN key modifier (i.e. the key on Windows keyboards with the Windows flag symbol on it) can be used in reassigning default TIR key functions?
I'm asking because I'm trying to figure out a way to deconflict all TIR key functions from LOMAC's, so thast TIR does not invalidate certain LOMAC functions that cannot themselves be reassigned, like the radio commands, that require F8, F9 and F12.
All advice appreciated, as always.
[ November 06, 2003, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: Bahger ]
Using the WIN key in TIR key reassignments
Re: Using the WIN key in TIR key reassignments
[Bump]...anyone?
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Elem_Klimov
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- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 5:00 am
- Location: England
Re: Using the WIN key in TIR key reassignments
Sorry I cant answer your question, I'm a new user and have a similar question. My Win key no longer works since loading the TIR2 software. This is really annoying as I use it a lot when in all games, so I have uninstalled TIR2 until I get an answer to this. Is it something I've done or can it be corrected?
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Charlie251
- Posts: 955
- Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 5:00 am
- Location: Melbourne, Florida
Re: Using the WIN key in TIR key reassignments
You can use the Win key and the menu key as TIR hotkeys. If you do not want to use them, simply reassign the hotkey assigned to it or go into your hotkey manu and unclick the "TRAP KEY" radio button for that hotkey.
But, seeing as how you will get dumped to the desktop if you hit either one while in game, I would recommend keeping TRAP KEY on for those keys.
Note: The trap key function means that TIR will set that key exclusivly for its own use and will not allow windows to use that key.
What needs to happen is for everyone to post on the lo-mac forum for the devs to leave keys open for our assignment as TIR keys and Comm PTT buttons. I have posted the thread a few times and had good response from the user base each time. But no one from UBI or ED ever responded.
I use the Keypad +, KP -, and back slash for my hot keys. They work fine in all games.
But, seeing as how you will get dumped to the desktop if you hit either one while in game, I would recommend keeping TRAP KEY on for those keys.
Note: The trap key function means that TIR will set that key exclusivly for its own use and will not allow windows to use that key.
What needs to happen is for everyone to post on the lo-mac forum for the devs to leave keys open for our assignment as TIR keys and Comm PTT buttons. I have posted the thread a few times and had good response from the user base each time. But no one from UBI or ED ever responded.
I use the Keypad +, KP -, and back slash for my hot keys. They work fine in all games.
Re: Using the WIN key in TIR key reassignments
Charlie, that's the most helpful answer I've had so far on the vexing issue of how to make LOMAC, my CH HOTAS and TIR all play nice. Since you know aout this stuff, I'd like to ask you to look at a question I originally posted on another forum:
quote:I have not yet been able to wrap my brain around how to include keystrokes for all the important TIR functions (On/Off, Recenter) within my MiG 29 CH PRO profile without excluding certain vital LOMAC key assignments. For example, any radio command that requires F8, F9 or F12 is invalidated by TIR's assumption of these keys and radio commands cannot be reassigned.
I'm using an adapted Flanker 2.5 MiG 29 profile and it works beautifully apart from the TIR conflicts described above. I have assigned TIR On/Off and Re-center to my stick but I'm having trouble accessing certain view and radio command functions that have been assumed by TIR whenever the program is active (i.e. even when it is disabled). I do not know how to reassign key functions in TIR and even though I'm sure I'll be able to figure it out, I'm still baffled as to how to cram every neccessary LOMAC/TIR function into my HOTAS profile. Charlie, do you have any specific advice? In general terms I know what I need to do (find ways to reassign all TIR keys, possibly using SHIFT, CONTROL, ALT or WIN in order to deconflict them entirely from LOMAC) but it's easier said than done and I'd be grateful for any advice that might reduce lengthy and futile experimentation...
quote:I have not yet been able to wrap my brain around how to include keystrokes for all the important TIR functions (On/Off, Recenter) within my MiG 29 CH PRO profile without excluding certain vital LOMAC key assignments. For example, any radio command that requires F8, F9 or F12 is invalidated by TIR's assumption of these keys and radio commands cannot be reassigned.
I'm using an adapted Flanker 2.5 MiG 29 profile and it works beautifully apart from the TIR conflicts described above. I have assigned TIR On/Off and Re-center to my stick but I'm having trouble accessing certain view and radio command functions that have been assumed by TIR whenever the program is active (i.e. even when it is disabled). I do not know how to reassign key functions in TIR and even though I'm sure I'll be able to figure it out, I'm still baffled as to how to cram every neccessary LOMAC/TIR function into my HOTAS profile. Charlie, do you have any specific advice? In general terms I know what I need to do (find ways to reassign all TIR keys, possibly using SHIFT, CONTROL, ALT or WIN in order to deconflict them entirely from LOMAC) but it's easier said than done and I'd be grateful for any advice that might reduce lengthy and futile experimentation...
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Charlie251
- Posts: 955
- Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 5:00 am
- Location: Melbourne, Florida
Re: Using the WIN key in TIR key reassignments
I also use the CH Pro HOTAS.
LOMAC is a funny creature right now because it is hard to find the keys needed. I have not put much time into finding the keys as the full release will have a different key setup (according to Matt Wagner).
What I use right now for the demo is this....
TIR Enable: Keypad + (TRAP ON)
TIR Mode: Keypad - (TRAP ON)
TIR Center: Back Slash (TRAP OFF)
The back slash key in lomac is also your radio communications menu key to talk with the tower and your wingman.
So, I turned the trap OFF so that the TIR software will "share" that key press with windows / lomac.
With enhanced mode, I only need to center my TIR once as soon as I start the mission. After that, I dont have to worry about it anymore so it is no big deal.
I should have a copy of lomac within the next few days and I can give a better assessment of what is going on with the keys in the beta version we will receive.
But those keys should work OK for you now.
In your CH Pro software, just use the key record feature to assign the above keys to a POV or button of your choice.
LOMAC is a funny creature right now because it is hard to find the keys needed. I have not put much time into finding the keys as the full release will have a different key setup (according to Matt Wagner).
What I use right now for the demo is this....
TIR Enable: Keypad + (TRAP ON)
TIR Mode: Keypad - (TRAP ON)
TIR Center: Back Slash (TRAP OFF)
The back slash key in lomac is also your radio communications menu key to talk with the tower and your wingman.
So, I turned the trap OFF so that the TIR software will "share" that key press with windows / lomac.
With enhanced mode, I only need to center my TIR once as soon as I start the mission. After that, I dont have to worry about it anymore so it is no big deal.
I should have a copy of lomac within the next few days and I can give a better assessment of what is going on with the keys in the beta version we will receive.
But those keys should work OK for you now.
In your CH Pro software, just use the key record feature to assign the above keys to a POV or button of your choice.
Re: Using the WIN key in TIR key reassignments
Finally...an answer!! Thank you so much, "Charlie", your suggestions make total sense and I'm going to implement them in my HOTAS profile tonight in the hope that I can get some of those radio and view commands back...
Funny that you mentioned the key assignment issues in the demo, as I have been in touch with CH staff and beta testers who have simply set the demo aside until all the key assignments are final and/or they all work as advertised, neither of which apply right now.
I find I like to recenter TIR fairly regularly in-flight, a bit like updating an inertial navigational system to compensate for gyro drift. I assigned TIR on/off and recenter to a throttle hat (giving up two less than vital LOMAC functions); sometimes I can fly the A-10 better against an immobile target with a fixed POV rather than a "wandering" one, and the ability to toggle TIR on/off from my HOTAS is a painless way to do this. My question is, since I do not want to bring up the LOMAC comms menu every time I recenter TIR, would it work in theory to make the TIR recenter key SHIFT / ? Or can you not use two-key combos in the TIR hotkey menu? I apologise for not checking myself but I'm at work. I wonder if the backslash key would suffice (or is it already assigned in LOMAC)? What would be your solution to this?
I'm glad you are soon going to have the Beta to play with before the retail version comes out. As soon as I can get a list of key assignments, I think I might copy them to a custom-made database file in Filemaker Pro so that anyone else who is looking to balance LOMAC with a HOTAS plus TIR can organise the data any way he wants by sorting on individual fields. If there is any demand for this, I'll make it available as a utility. What do you think? Since FM Pro is a $600 program, maybe there is another, commonplace database program for Windows that will do the job...
Funny that you mentioned the key assignment issues in the demo, as I have been in touch with CH staff and beta testers who have simply set the demo aside until all the key assignments are final and/or they all work as advertised, neither of which apply right now.
I find I like to recenter TIR fairly regularly in-flight, a bit like updating an inertial navigational system to compensate for gyro drift. I assigned TIR on/off and recenter to a throttle hat (giving up two less than vital LOMAC functions); sometimes I can fly the A-10 better against an immobile target with a fixed POV rather than a "wandering" one, and the ability to toggle TIR on/off from my HOTAS is a painless way to do this. My question is, since I do not want to bring up the LOMAC comms menu every time I recenter TIR, would it work in theory to make the TIR recenter key SHIFT / ? Or can you not use two-key combos in the TIR hotkey menu? I apologise for not checking myself but I'm at work. I wonder if the backslash key would suffice (or is it already assigned in LOMAC)? What would be your solution to this?
I'm glad you are soon going to have the Beta to play with before the retail version comes out. As soon as I can get a list of key assignments, I think I might copy them to a custom-made database file in Filemaker Pro so that anyone else who is looking to balance LOMAC with a HOTAS plus TIR can organise the data any way he wants by sorting on individual fields. If there is any demand for this, I'll make it available as a utility. What do you think? Since FM Pro is a $600 program, maybe there is another, commonplace database program for Windows that will do the job...
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Charlie251
- Posts: 955
- Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 5:00 am
- Location: Melbourne, Florida
Re: Using the WIN key in TIR key reassignments
I normally have a multi-mode profile for each aircraft. Each mode on the hotas is a different flight mode (Nav, AA, AG). For each mode, my TrackIR commands are mapped to the upper left POV on the USB Flighterstick along with Zoom and UnZoom.
Anyway, I didnt even both with setting it up like this for the demo as the keys are going to change and I wasnt about to spend the time setting that up just to have to do it all over again in a few weeks!!
Unfortunantly, you cannot use multiple buttons for the TrackIR hotkeys.
I "think" our best bet is going to be changing buttons in the game to shift- or ctr- commands and using the single press key as the TrackIR hotkey.
One big issue is trying to find keys that will not conflict with the game AND windows at the same time. For instance, you can use U and a few others in the demo with no problem, except they clash with Windows prior to entering game. So a Communications PTT button on that key is useless. Very annoying in Windows!
So far, I have found the KP+, KP-, and \ to be my favorite TrackIR hotkey buttons and F12 and F11 as my Comm PTT buttons. The Keypad buttons are normally left open or throttle commands in games so I just unmap them and use the HOTAS. The F12 and F11 are normally view keys that I do not use so I unmap them as well.
That is my only suggestion to you right now until I know more about the final release. Maybe remap the communications button in the demo from the \ key to an unused key like U (Im pretty sure it is free) and then keep the \ for your TrackIR. I use the KP+, KP-, and F12 key as well with no other problems and did not remap the commands normally assigned to those buttons.
Unfortunantly, I do not know what the key situation is going to be like in the full release of LOMAC. As I said before, I have asked them many times to leave the F11 and F12 key open but I seriously doubt they listened.
It is my hope that more people will pester them and ALL game makers to leave us some keys free for PTT buttons and TIR Hotkeys. Of course, Natural Point's help in this matter would make a big difference (hint hint to Jim )
As for the database... I normally make up an excel spreadsheet with all the keys listed there. I had one for FB that went over really well. Then people could just tweak the cells as they wanted and print them out. I also use the Power Point CH Pro layout for making up a "picture" of what is assigned to what keys.
If you do not have it, I just uploaded it for you here...
http://www.virtualflightproductions.com ... _Blank.ppt
Enjoy.
[ November 12, 2003, 01:37 AM: Message edited by: Charlie ]
Anyway, I didnt even both with setting it up like this for the demo as the keys are going to change and I wasnt about to spend the time setting that up just to have to do it all over again in a few weeks!!
Unfortunantly, you cannot use multiple buttons for the TrackIR hotkeys.
I "think" our best bet is going to be changing buttons in the game to shift- or ctr- commands and using the single press key as the TrackIR hotkey.
One big issue is trying to find keys that will not conflict with the game AND windows at the same time. For instance, you can use U and a few others in the demo with no problem, except they clash with Windows prior to entering game. So a Communications PTT button on that key is useless. Very annoying in Windows!
So far, I have found the KP+, KP-, and \ to be my favorite TrackIR hotkey buttons and F12 and F11 as my Comm PTT buttons. The Keypad buttons are normally left open or throttle commands in games so I just unmap them and use the HOTAS. The F12 and F11 are normally view keys that I do not use so I unmap them as well.
That is my only suggestion to you right now until I know more about the final release. Maybe remap the communications button in the demo from the \ key to an unused key like U (Im pretty sure it is free) and then keep the \ for your TrackIR. I use the KP+, KP-, and F12 key as well with no other problems and did not remap the commands normally assigned to those buttons.
Unfortunantly, I do not know what the key situation is going to be like in the full release of LOMAC. As I said before, I have asked them many times to leave the F11 and F12 key open but I seriously doubt they listened.
It is my hope that more people will pester them and ALL game makers to leave us some keys free for PTT buttons and TIR Hotkeys. Of course, Natural Point's help in this matter would make a big difference (hint hint to Jim )
As for the database... I normally make up an excel spreadsheet with all the keys listed there. I had one for FB that went over really well. Then people could just tweak the cells as they wanted and print them out. I also use the Power Point CH Pro layout for making up a "picture" of what is assigned to what keys.
If you do not have it, I just uploaded it for you here...
http://www.virtualflightproductions.com ... _Blank.ppt
Enjoy.
[ November 12, 2003, 01:37 AM: Message edited by: Charlie ]
Re: Using the WIN key in TIR key reassignments
Thanks for the file. I do not have Powerpoint on my home PC but I'll be able to finagle it in the office.
Re: Using the WIN key in TIR key reassignments
Bahger,
I have found a solution! Assign your trackIR functions to Keypad 1, Keypad3, Keypad 7, and Keypad 9.
Once these single keypresses have been assigned to trackIR functions simply assign two key combos to your HOTAS to perform the diagonal movement functions (eg: HOLD KP4 KP2 works as a replacement for the original Keypad 1 on my CH gear)
Give it a try.
[ November 14, 2003, 12:59 AM: Message edited by: Eric Glasper ]
I have found a solution! Assign your trackIR functions to Keypad 1, Keypad3, Keypad 7, and Keypad 9.
Once these single keypresses have been assigned to trackIR functions simply assign two key combos to your HOTAS to perform the diagonal movement functions (eg: HOLD KP4 KP2 works as a replacement for the original Keypad 1 on my CH gear)
Give it a try.
[ November 14, 2003, 12:59 AM: Message edited by: Eric Glasper ]