I�m thinking about a boxing game, like Xbox Fight Night, but played with the camera just in 3rd person view. You strafe and walk with keyboard and mose, but the others movements are all with 6DOF..... mmmm..... would be great to avoid hits only moving your head.
Next generation consoles must support 6DOF. Fighting games would increase a lot thier potential.
And with 6DOF, why not.... a soccer simulator played in 1st view, using the HL2 engine.
Trackir can be usefull to play most of games.
HALFLIFE2
-
orbtechsims
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:00 am
Re: HALFLIFE2
[ April 05, 2005, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: orbtechsims ]
Re: HALFLIFE2
hey orbtechsims,
one of our programmers experimented with a HL2 mod, but it didn't turn out well.
(he created a second camera, just for trackir, but it considered "true north" to be the centerpoint, instead of the gun, so it was a less than thrilling demo)
i'm struggling to get him excited to keep going, though. part of the reasons i'm enjoying this thread.
i've also discussed the "Source" engine a tiny bit with a friendly fellow at IGDA :
http://www.igda.org/Forums/showthread.p ... 8e3&thread id=14186
and i've been trying to discuss the evolutions in first person gaming in this thread:
http://www.igda.org/Forums/showthread.p ... d4e2ca34fe 6de8781e1881e8e3&threadid=7670&perpage=15&pagenumber=3
(but people just don't get it) (not do people seem to understand that VR Goggles are not likely to ever work out. i am tempted to whip up an official page for our site focusing just on the VR Goggle myth).
anywho.
to answer your question, yes we are attacking HL2.
No idea when, or if, we'll succeed.
-you can see trackir usage in a FPS in WWIIonline, right now. They've had a pretty good 2dof implementation for months now. (and they are working on upgrading to 6DOF!).
-no one has said concretely how trackir should work in FPS, because there is a huge amount of disagreement. but we're getting there.
more laterrrr
[ February 21, 2005, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: NaturalPoint-Warren ]
one of our programmers experimented with a HL2 mod, but it didn't turn out well.
(he created a second camera, just for trackir, but it considered "true north" to be the centerpoint, instead of the gun, so it was a less than thrilling demo)
i'm struggling to get him excited to keep going, though. part of the reasons i'm enjoying this thread.
i've also discussed the "Source" engine a tiny bit with a friendly fellow at IGDA :
http://www.igda.org/Forums/showthread.p ... 8e3&thread id=14186
and i've been trying to discuss the evolutions in first person gaming in this thread:
http://www.igda.org/Forums/showthread.p ... d4e2ca34fe 6de8781e1881e8e3&threadid=7670&perpage=15&pagenumber=3
(but people just don't get it) (not do people seem to understand that VR Goggles are not likely to ever work out. i am tempted to whip up an official page for our site focusing just on the VR Goggle myth).
anywho.
to answer your question, yes we are attacking HL2.
No idea when, or if, we'll succeed.
-you can see trackir usage in a FPS in WWIIonline, right now. They've had a pretty good 2dof implementation for months now. (and they are working on upgrading to 6DOF!).
-no one has said concretely how trackir should work in FPS, because there is a huge amount of disagreement. but we're getting there.
more laterrrr
[ February 21, 2005, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: NaturalPoint-Warren ]
Re: HALFLIFE2
Man Warren you are right. They are stuck on the VR goggles. I understand their dreams of the goggles but I think what they are looking for is right here. The poster talking about using two mice--one to look and one to aim, but he said he did not like the idea of using a mouse with his left hand. Hello man do some research. TIR 3 is exactly what they are wanting.I can't wait till you guys have even a little glimps of what it would be like.
I have requested someone post a small movie of infantry in WO II online. If some one posts one maybe you could host it and direct the guys from the above post to view it . We need to get the awareness of this up so developers will be calling you to implement it into their product.
I'm in the process of talking to clans in the Desert Combat Mod about "what do you think it would be like?" I've talked to about 10 and it never really even never entered their mind about something like that, but now they are asking about BF2 and if it will be in the game. So I'm trying to get the word out but it is hard to say 'well imagine...' So as soon as you guys get through with the teaser you are working on, I think awareness will shoot sky high.
Chill bumps just thinking of it!!!!
Cant wait.
[ February 22, 2005, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: awz10 ]
I have requested someone post a small movie of infantry in WO II online. If some one posts one maybe you could host it and direct the guys from the above post to view it . We need to get the awareness of this up so developers will be calling you to implement it into their product.
I'm in the process of talking to clans in the Desert Combat Mod about "what do you think it would be like?" I've talked to about 10 and it never really even never entered their mind about something like that, but now they are asking about BF2 and if it will be in the game. So I'm trying to get the word out but it is hard to say 'well imagine...' So as soon as you guys get through with the teaser you are working on, I think awareness will shoot sky high.
Chill bumps just thinking of it!!!!
Cant wait.
[ February 22, 2005, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: awz10 ]
Re: HALFLIFE2
I totally agree barred
The hangup i see for theTIR with FPS is the same hangup I see with FS2004, When in flight trying to look down (without vector since mine has NOT SHIPPED! COME ON NP LETS GO!) and try to flip a switch with your head and mouse actually working against each other, kinda like over comphensation for both. I can see that happening with FPS. However, lets say (and I know the right mouse is used for alt fire, but lets just say for right now) that you use the r click to bring up the gun to where you are looking and temporarily lock the two together with mouse control taking over for precise aiming? I don't know how it would work but let me know some feedback
I also think that would fix the problem with the problem of only being able to turn a total of 180 degrees from forward to the left or right.
I guess you would also need to integrate the F12 button in the same keystroke so you can return you head to 'center' without moving the screen or your aim.
Let me know pros and cons.
Warren, I am just brainstorming how we can blow the lid off this thing. Have you contacted the developers of America's Army? They are pretty boastfull that they are really into the simulation part of FPSs. I wonder what they would think about getting it in there,and they are always doing patches ,huge patches. They also have a huge following. Might be perfect for integration into an establised product that might be with open arms with your product.
[ February 22, 2005, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: awz10 ]
The hangup i see for theTIR with FPS is the same hangup I see with FS2004, When in flight trying to look down (without vector since mine has NOT SHIPPED! COME ON NP LETS GO!) and try to flip a switch with your head and mouse actually working against each other, kinda like over comphensation for both. I can see that happening with FPS. However, lets say (and I know the right mouse is used for alt fire, but lets just say for right now) that you use the r click to bring up the gun to where you are looking and temporarily lock the two together with mouse control taking over for precise aiming? I don't know how it would work but let me know some feedback
I also think that would fix the problem with the problem of only being able to turn a total of 180 degrees from forward to the left or right.
I guess you would also need to integrate the F12 button in the same keystroke so you can return you head to 'center' without moving the screen or your aim.
Let me know pros and cons.
Warren, I am just brainstorming how we can blow the lid off this thing. Have you contacted the developers of America's Army? They are pretty boastfull that they are really into the simulation part of FPSs. I wonder what they would think about getting it in there,and they are always doing patches ,huge patches. They also have a huge following. Might be perfect for integration into an establised product that might be with open arms with your product.
[ February 22, 2005, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: awz10 ]
Re: HALFLIFE2
quote:Originally posted by awz10:
I totally agree barred
The hangup i see for theTIR with FPS is the same hangup I see with FS2004, When in flight trying to look down (without vector since mine has NOT SHIPPED! COME ON NP LETS GO!) and try to flip a switch with your head and mouse actually working against each other, kinda like over comphensation for both. I can see that happening with FPS. However, lets say (and I know the right mouse is used for alt fire, but lets just say for right now) that you use the r click to bring up the gun to where you are looking and temporarily lock the two together with mouse control taking over for precise aiming? I don't know how it would work but let me know some feedback
I also think that would fix the problem with the problem of only being able to turn a total of 180 degrees from forward to the left or right.
I guess you would also need to integrate the F12 button in the same keystroke so you can return you head to 'center' without moving the screen or your aim.
Let me know pros and cons.
Warren, I am just brainstorming how we can blow the lid off this thing. Have you contacted the developers of America's Army? They are pretty boastfull that they are really into the simulation part of FPSs. I wonder what they would think about getting it in there,and they are always doing patches ,huge patches. They also have a huge following. Might be perfect for integration into an establised product that might be with open arms with your product.I think that's a great idea for FPS games! Assigning one of the mouse buttons to bring the firing reticle up when you are viewing off-axis would be a great addition! Additionally, the aiming would be not so accurate especially if moving.
Not to difficult to implement either I would think.
What somebody needs to do is develop an FPS demo for NP. Wouldn't have to be complex but just an in-game level scenario to be able to show developers up-close and personal how it would work. in an FPS.
Maybe there's a game engine out there that is easily adapted for these purposes?
I totally agree barred
The hangup i see for theTIR with FPS is the same hangup I see with FS2004, When in flight trying to look down (without vector since mine has NOT SHIPPED! COME ON NP LETS GO!) and try to flip a switch with your head and mouse actually working against each other, kinda like over comphensation for both. I can see that happening with FPS. However, lets say (and I know the right mouse is used for alt fire, but lets just say for right now) that you use the r click to bring up the gun to where you are looking and temporarily lock the two together with mouse control taking over for precise aiming? I don't know how it would work but let me know some feedback
I also think that would fix the problem with the problem of only being able to turn a total of 180 degrees from forward to the left or right.
I guess you would also need to integrate the F12 button in the same keystroke so you can return you head to 'center' without moving the screen or your aim.
Let me know pros and cons.
Warren, I am just brainstorming how we can blow the lid off this thing. Have you contacted the developers of America's Army? They are pretty boastfull that they are really into the simulation part of FPSs. I wonder what they would think about getting it in there,and they are always doing patches ,huge patches. They also have a huge following. Might be perfect for integration into an establised product that might be with open arms with your product.I think that's a great idea for FPS games! Assigning one of the mouse buttons to bring the firing reticle up when you are viewing off-axis would be a great addition! Additionally, the aiming would be not so accurate especially if moving.
Not to difficult to implement either I would think.
What somebody needs to do is develop an FPS demo for NP. Wouldn't have to be complex but just an in-game level scenario to be able to show developers up-close and personal how it would work. in an FPS.
Maybe there's a game engine out there that is easily adapted for these purposes?
Re: HALFLIFE2
Same thing here Awz. I have tried to use my original TIR1 in games like Call of Duty and MechWarrior 4.
The freedome to look around with your head was absolutly fantastic. It did (literally) become a pain in the neck to aim and shoot accuratly. So I can see where having TIR for looking and using the mouse still to aim. If you are say looking less than 20 degrees when you go into sighted mode then your view comes automatically to the sight if you are kneeling or prone and the sighted mode goes to your view the rest of the time. When in sighted mode your view is locked to the weapon and is controlled by the mouse.
When you are moving in sighted mode in real life, you cannot move so fast because your accuratcy goes right out of the window if you are moving fast when sighted. Even when you are moving your speed is dramaticallt reduced as well.
This could really be tied into TIR and I really wish that it was happening in some of the up and comming games like Brothers in Arms. To me BiA is crying out for TIR implementation of TIR as an enhancer, so that those who do not have TIR are not so severly disadvantaged but enough to get them interested in TIR
The freedome to look around with your head was absolutly fantastic. It did (literally) become a pain in the neck to aim and shoot accuratly. So I can see where having TIR for looking and using the mouse still to aim. If you are say looking less than 20 degrees when you go into sighted mode then your view comes automatically to the sight if you are kneeling or prone and the sighted mode goes to your view the rest of the time. When in sighted mode your view is locked to the weapon and is controlled by the mouse.
When you are moving in sighted mode in real life, you cannot move so fast because your accuratcy goes right out of the window if you are moving fast when sighted. Even when you are moving your speed is dramaticallt reduced as well.
This could really be tied into TIR and I really wish that it was happening in some of the up and comming games like Brothers in Arms. To me BiA is crying out for TIR implementation of TIR as an enhancer, so that those who do not have TIR are not so severly disadvantaged but enough to get them interested in TIR
Re: HALFLIFE2
Instead of trying to reconfigure an established game, I hate to say, but , the best way to demonstrate the way the TIR with vector could revolutionize the FPS genre is to have a CAD artist mock up a human figure with some sort of weapon and animate the figure with the movements of the mouse, keyboard, and TIR. And my opinion (strictly my opinion,and could change at any time) they should be assigned as such.
Keyboard= Same as always. Lower body with weapon following body
TIR w/ Vector= Head movement with possibly a ducking movement to crouch, ducking forward as prone, slow lean left/right as a lean, maybe even a fast lean as a roll (while prone of course), And as said in above posts, the ability to give head 'gestures' as commands is going to be invaluable due to the integrated proximity voice over ip (meaning the closer you are to the person the better you can hear them even enemy forces.) And the ability to peek over above and around obstacles will bring you right into the action. They could even incorporate the speed of the action relative to the speed of the character, as a fluid movement.
mouse= Weapon select/firing. Rethinking this one from my above post had me thinking that most FPS military games use the right mouse click to use the scope of the weapon anyway and while pushed it would "toggle the TIR off" untill it was released, giving you the same acuracy as in a regular FPS. It would be just like walking through a deep wooded area hearing footsteps, leaning forward to go to a kneel position and then hearing command orders from an enemy to his followers. You use the TIR to look around without making the crackling under your boots to see that the enemy is just over your left shoulder. You then right click to bring your weapon up to exactly center of your screen where you hold to scope and shoot him between the eyes.
Everyone here realizes that what we are talking about is going to introduce a whole new genre of gaming--I'll coin it here first "the simulation FPS or FPSulation Just kiddin on the last one.
It is going to be intense. I'm really just wondering if it is going to harder or easier to get use to. If you are like me I'm merely ok at games in general. I game for the sense of another person at a different time type of experience. This seems like it would be a little easier to control because it is using most of your natural body movement to control an onscreen character, hince making the experiance more out of body. That is kinda the way i see it, the less i have to think about what button to push the more i can let go. (My life is NOT that boring where I have to do that, it is just enjoyable, so quit saying LOOSER!)
I'll quit cause I'm rambling on.
Let me know if i'm on the same page as everyone else!
[ February 23, 2005, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: awz10 ]
Keyboard= Same as always. Lower body with weapon following body
TIR w/ Vector= Head movement with possibly a ducking movement to crouch, ducking forward as prone, slow lean left/right as a lean, maybe even a fast lean as a roll (while prone of course), And as said in above posts, the ability to give head 'gestures' as commands is going to be invaluable due to the integrated proximity voice over ip (meaning the closer you are to the person the better you can hear them even enemy forces.) And the ability to peek over above and around obstacles will bring you right into the action. They could even incorporate the speed of the action relative to the speed of the character, as a fluid movement.
mouse= Weapon select/firing. Rethinking this one from my above post had me thinking that most FPS military games use the right mouse click to use the scope of the weapon anyway and while pushed it would "toggle the TIR off" untill it was released, giving you the same acuracy as in a regular FPS. It would be just like walking through a deep wooded area hearing footsteps, leaning forward to go to a kneel position and then hearing command orders from an enemy to his followers. You use the TIR to look around without making the crackling under your boots to see that the enemy is just over your left shoulder. You then right click to bring your weapon up to exactly center of your screen where you hold to scope and shoot him between the eyes.
Everyone here realizes that what we are talking about is going to introduce a whole new genre of gaming--I'll coin it here first "the simulation FPS or FPSulation Just kiddin on the last one.
It is going to be intense. I'm really just wondering if it is going to harder or easier to get use to. If you are like me I'm merely ok at games in general. I game for the sense of another person at a different time type of experience. This seems like it would be a little easier to control because it is using most of your natural body movement to control an onscreen character, hince making the experiance more out of body. That is kinda the way i see it, the less i have to think about what button to push the more i can let go. (My life is NOT that boring where I have to do that, it is just enjoyable, so quit saying LOOSER!)
I'll quit cause I'm rambling on.
Let me know if i'm on the same page as everyone else!
[ February 23, 2005, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: awz10 ]
Re: HALFLIFE2
(Hope this isn't mentioned, couldn't find any reference to adjusting your stance.)
Another thing you could do with this is similar to leaning. Vertical movement of your head could give you more control over your stance. So say you are in the crouched stance behind an object and you want to peak over it you just slightly raise your head and in game your head and your whole upper body raises a little. Of course this needs to be skaled as well.
Or better said, the horizontal and vertical movement could completly determine the position of your head in game. From your hip onwards your upper body and/or neck would provide for this movement.
EDIT: darn just saw awz10 post, so it is mentioned already. However I would still prefer having buttons for the 3 stances, only using TrackIR for finetuning your stance. Also I tend to agree that bringing up your sights should lock your view in lign with your gun again.
Also you probably don't need use the button very often to toggle this function on and off. Mostly you can keep it on since unlike with turning your head to change FOV moving your head for not game related reasons doesn't desorient you, especially if it you are only are moving around a certain stance in stead of determing stance completely with your head.
BTW. What about having your gun shouldered, but not sighted? Think you should be able to dealign with your gun by hitting or holding a button.
Also what about letting movement on the z-axis determine your movement speed. So moving your head forwards makes you move faster. (Not sure about this on, could feel a bit strange when the other axis' determine head position in game and the third axis determining speed. Might be a bit cofusing?)
It would also enable you to hold your gun vertical while still looking around freely. (keeping your barrel from giving away your position. Or laying in cover and be able to keep concealed by only moving your head instead of wildly turning your whole body.
[ March 06, 2005, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: taxi ]
Another thing you could do with this is similar to leaning. Vertical movement of your head could give you more control over your stance. So say you are in the crouched stance behind an object and you want to peak over it you just slightly raise your head and in game your head and your whole upper body raises a little. Of course this needs to be skaled as well.
Or better said, the horizontal and vertical movement could completly determine the position of your head in game. From your hip onwards your upper body and/or neck would provide for this movement.
EDIT: darn just saw awz10 post, so it is mentioned already. However I would still prefer having buttons for the 3 stances, only using TrackIR for finetuning your stance. Also I tend to agree that bringing up your sights should lock your view in lign with your gun again.
Also you probably don't need use the button very often to toggle this function on and off. Mostly you can keep it on since unlike with turning your head to change FOV moving your head for not game related reasons doesn't desorient you, especially if it you are only are moving around a certain stance in stead of determing stance completely with your head.
BTW. What about having your gun shouldered, but not sighted? Think you should be able to dealign with your gun by hitting or holding a button.
Also what about letting movement on the z-axis determine your movement speed. So moving your head forwards makes you move faster. (Not sure about this on, could feel a bit strange when the other axis' determine head position in game and the third axis determining speed. Might be a bit cofusing?)
It would also enable you to hold your gun vertical while still looking around freely. (keeping your barrel from giving away your position. Or laying in cover and be able to keep concealed by only moving your head instead of wildly turning your whole body.
[ March 06, 2005, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: taxi ]
Re: HALFLIFE2
Taxi, it is good to see your addition, even if someting has been covered befor, it does not hurt adding wieght to the discussion. Personally I would rather have the Z axis for positioning than for movement speed as it would be easier to controle and programe.
I think that given the chance TIR could really add to FPS and that is why I think that the z axis is better suited to looking around an object when used with head tilt (think of craning your neck around a corner.)
I think that given the chance TIR could really add to FPS and that is why I think that the z axis is better suited to looking around an object when used with head tilt (think of craning your neck around a corner.)