quote:Originally posted by Barred:
Taxi, it is good to see your addition, even if someting has been covered befor, it does not hurt adding wieght to the discussion. Personally I would rather have the Z axis for positioning than for movement speed as it would be easier to controle and programe.
I think that given the chance TIR could really add to FPS and that is why I think that the z axis is better suited to looking around an object when used with head tilt (think of craning your neck around a corner.)You're probably right. Alternativally I was thinking perhaps trigger the speed function only when moving. So when you are not moving in game, real life position of your head determines your head position and body stance in game.
If you are moving (pushing either the forward, backward or strafe keys) the position of your head IRL would determine your movement speed. So the more you lean left IRL the faster you go left when using the left strafe key. Also the more you move forward when hitting the forward key the faster you go forward.
Could be too complicated/unnatural perhaps, not sure really.
[ March 03, 2005, 07:29 PM: Message edited by: taxi ]
HALFLIFE2
Re: HALFLIFE2
this discussion is great. i need to find a way to boil it down so it's easy to share with certain people at the company!
z-speed- i think translation (leaning up/down, left/right, in/out) shouldn't affect your character in any excessive ways (speed, kneeling/prone). because people will do it by accident, and then feel frustrated that they're being "forced" to maintain a certain posture.
we don't want to penalize players for bad posture. heh. currently i'm hoping that translation can just move your torso around for others to see.
awz10 - yes, i have been working on building up examples with the Poser5 program. to try and show off what is possible. but this has led to a lot of debate about what we want to suggest to developers. i'd hate to suggest something that didn't pan out. discussions continue.
demoes- we have worked with a couple people on demos. We got one for the Torque engine, but it needs a lot of work.
We currently work pretty well in the FPS mode of WWIIOnline (why is this game always overlooked? it is a cool implementation!)
i will try to get a WWIIOnline infantry video up by the end of the month.
We have found some people interested in FPS implementation recently, but too soon to say any more about it.
also, i will continue to work on the FPS concept video. If the bosses don't mind, i'll post it here when i'm done, so yall can discuss. (hope to have it by the end of the month as well).
[ March 07, 2005, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: NaturalPoint-Warren ]
z-speed- i think translation (leaning up/down, left/right, in/out) shouldn't affect your character in any excessive ways (speed, kneeling/prone). because people will do it by accident, and then feel frustrated that they're being "forced" to maintain a certain posture.
we don't want to penalize players for bad posture. heh. currently i'm hoping that translation can just move your torso around for others to see.
awz10 - yes, i have been working on building up examples with the Poser5 program. to try and show off what is possible. but this has led to a lot of debate about what we want to suggest to developers. i'd hate to suggest something that didn't pan out. discussions continue.
demoes- we have worked with a couple people on demos. We got one for the Torque engine, but it needs a lot of work.
We currently work pretty well in the FPS mode of WWIIOnline (why is this game always overlooked? it is a cool implementation!)
i will try to get a WWIIOnline infantry video up by the end of the month.
We have found some people interested in FPS implementation recently, but too soon to say any more about it.
also, i will continue to work on the FPS concept video. If the bosses don't mind, i'll post it here when i'm done, so yall can discuss. (hope to have it by the end of the month as well).
[ March 07, 2005, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: NaturalPoint-Warren ]
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orbtechsims
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:00 am
Re: HALFLIFE2
I think it would help if we came up with some conclusions on how the 6 degrees are to be implemented. This will aid in both the poser modeling and also help to boil down this whole discussion, which is basically just different ideas on how TIR will be best implemented into FPS genre games. From reading the discussion (all 22 posts) I have complied what I believe to be the commonly agreed upon controls after their due debates. Please let me know if these assumptions are correct, Warren is this what WWII implements? I believe this is what HL2 should look like nonetheless. Let me know your opinions on this:
Pitch/Nod - View (disconnected from weapon aim) tilt up/down
Yaw/Rotate - View (disconnected from weapon aim) rotate left/right
Y/Vertical up-down - Peek over object when crouching (over a crate)
X/Horizontal left-right - Peek around edge of object when facing it (around a corner)
Z/In-out - N/A
Roll/Tilt - Corresponding view roll/tilt
Mouse x - Weapon aim left/right
Mouse y - Weapon aim up/down
Left mouse button - Fire
Right mouse button (while depressed) - Bring up aiming crosshair, bind view position and aiming crosshair together, give control to mouse x/y
[ March 09, 2005, 06:27 AM: Message edited by: orbtechsims ]
Pitch/Nod - View (disconnected from weapon aim) tilt up/down
Yaw/Rotate - View (disconnected from weapon aim) rotate left/right
Y/Vertical up-down - Peek over object when crouching (over a crate)
X/Horizontal left-right - Peek around edge of object when facing it (around a corner)
Z/In-out - N/A
Roll/Tilt - Corresponding view roll/tilt
Mouse x - Weapon aim left/right
Mouse y - Weapon aim up/down
Left mouse button - Fire
Right mouse button (while depressed) - Bring up aiming crosshair, bind view position and aiming crosshair together, give control to mouse x/y
[ March 09, 2005, 06:27 AM: Message edited by: orbtechsims ]
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orbtechsims
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:00 am
Re: HALFLIFE2
Just a heads up: I have written Yahn Bernier, a developer at Valve/Half-Life 2, who has helped me with the first VR simulation in the past. I have given him the link to this thread, he is very helpful and showed willingness to test new ideas with Half-Life 2 before and may have good insite on this discussion. Warren, I believe he may also have an idea on why your view camera believes true north to be the center point in your HL2 demo attempt - is that all you need to solve to have a Half-Life 2 enhancement available? Once the demo is set, Yahn could possible show a demo to other developers at Valve which could make Half-Life 2 fully TIR enhanced. What do you think, Yahn?
Re: HALFLIFE2
quote:Originally posted by orbtechsims:
I think it would help if we came up with some conclusions on how the 6 degrees are to be implemented. This will aid in both the poser modeling and also help to boil down this whole discussion, which is basically just different ideas on how TIR will be best implemented into FPS genre games. From reading the discussion (all 22 posts) I have complied what I believe to be the commonly agreed upon controls after their due debates. Please let me know if these assumptions are correct, Warren is this what WWII implements? I believe this is what HL2 should look like nonetheless. Let me know your opinions on this:
Pitch/Nod - View (disconnected from weapon aim) tilt up/down
Yaw/Rotate - View (disconnected from weapon aim) rotate left/right
Y/Vertical up-down - Peek over object when crouching (over a crate)
X/Horizontal left-right - Peek around edge of object when facing it (around a corner)
Z/In-out - N/A
Roll/Tilt - Corresponding view roll/tilt
Mouse x - Weapon aim left/right
Mouse y - Weapon aim up/down
Left mouse button - Fire
Right mouse button (while depressed) - Bring up aiming crosshair, bind view position and aiming crosshair together, give control to mouse x/yNice sumation.
I think it would help if we came up with some conclusions on how the 6 degrees are to be implemented. This will aid in both the poser modeling and also help to boil down this whole discussion, which is basically just different ideas on how TIR will be best implemented into FPS genre games. From reading the discussion (all 22 posts) I have complied what I believe to be the commonly agreed upon controls after their due debates. Please let me know if these assumptions are correct, Warren is this what WWII implements? I believe this is what HL2 should look like nonetheless. Let me know your opinions on this:
Pitch/Nod - View (disconnected from weapon aim) tilt up/down
Yaw/Rotate - View (disconnected from weapon aim) rotate left/right
Y/Vertical up-down - Peek over object when crouching (over a crate)
X/Horizontal left-right - Peek around edge of object when facing it (around a corner)
Z/In-out - N/A
Roll/Tilt - Corresponding view roll/tilt
Mouse x - Weapon aim left/right
Mouse y - Weapon aim up/down
Left mouse button - Fire
Right mouse button (while depressed) - Bring up aiming crosshair, bind view position and aiming crosshair together, give control to mouse x/yNice sumation.
Re: HALFLIFE2
quote:Originally posted by orbtechsims:
Y/Vertical up-down - Peek over object when crouching (over a crate)
Why not prone (only upwards) and standing (only downwards) as well?
I know aiming down sights while lifting you shoulders is not very easy (only when you can rest your weapon on an object), but lifting your upper body with the gun not sighted should be possible.
[ March 09, 2005, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: taxi ]
Y/Vertical up-down - Peek over object when crouching (over a crate)
Why not prone (only upwards) and standing (only downwards) as well?
I know aiming down sights while lifting you shoulders is not very easy (only when you can rest your weapon on an object), but lifting your upper body with the gun not sighted should be possible.
[ March 09, 2005, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: taxi ]
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orbtechsims
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:00 am
Re: HALFLIFE2
Taxi: While in prone it seems reasonable to still be able to peek over small objects or tall grass. But when would you ever use this in standing up? So the updated Y setting is:
Y/Vertical up-down - Peek over object when crouching (over a crate) or in prone (over tall grass)
[ March 15, 2005, 06:40 AM: Message edited by: orbtechsims ]
Y/Vertical up-down - Peek over object when crouching (over a crate) or in prone (over tall grass)
[ March 15, 2005, 06:40 AM: Message edited by: orbtechsims ]
Re: HALFLIFE2
quote:Originally posted by orbtechsims:
Just a heads up: I have written Yahn Bernier, a developer at Valve/Half-Life 2, who has helped me with the first VR simulation in the past. Thanks for this, Orb.
If Yahn does chat it up with you, please let us know. I believe our HL2 loving programmer abandoned his HL2 demo mod when some new version of source rendered it obsolete. But we're talking to some other HL2 modders right now. we'll seeee.
While i am dying to drop everything and attack FPS concepts, i'm currently drowning under the impending release of OptiTrack. sooooo.
It may be a few weeks before cranking out any FPS video. we'll see.
more later
[ March 15, 2005, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: NaturalPoint-Warren ]
Just a heads up: I have written Yahn Bernier, a developer at Valve/Half-Life 2, who has helped me with the first VR simulation in the past. Thanks for this, Orb.
If Yahn does chat it up with you, please let us know. I believe our HL2 loving programmer abandoned his HL2 demo mod when some new version of source rendered it obsolete. But we're talking to some other HL2 modders right now. we'll seeee.
While i am dying to drop everything and attack FPS concepts, i'm currently drowning under the impending release of OptiTrack. sooooo.
It may be a few weeks before cranking out any FPS video. we'll see.
more later
[ March 15, 2005, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: NaturalPoint-Warren ]
Re: HALFLIFE2
quote:Originally posted by orbtechsims:
Taxi: While in prone it seems reasonable to still be able to peek over small objects or tall grass. But when would you ever use this in standing up? So the updated Y setting is:
Y/Vertical up-down - Peek over object when crouching (over a crate) or in prone (over tall grass)Say you have a wall which reaches under your shoulders by standing straight up. If you want to show as little of your body as possible, you would make sure you lower your body just a little bit so that just your weapon clears the wall and only part of you head is visible.
I might sound insignificant, but it can just keep you from being spotted or shot. If it is possible, why not?
Secondly, some realistic player models for holding your weapon vertical, but looking forward would be nice. (to keep your barrel from sticking out and giving away your position).
[ March 21, 2005, 10:44 PM: Message edited by: taxi ]
Taxi: While in prone it seems reasonable to still be able to peek over small objects or tall grass. But when would you ever use this in standing up? So the updated Y setting is:
Y/Vertical up-down - Peek over object when crouching (over a crate) or in prone (over tall grass)Say you have a wall which reaches under your shoulders by standing straight up. If you want to show as little of your body as possible, you would make sure you lower your body just a little bit so that just your weapon clears the wall and only part of you head is visible.
I might sound insignificant, but it can just keep you from being spotted or shot. If it is possible, why not?
Secondly, some realistic player models for holding your weapon vertical, but looking forward would be nice. (to keep your barrel from sticking out and giving away your position).
[ March 21, 2005, 10:44 PM: Message edited by: taxi ]
Re: HALFLIFE2
Hi taxi. the model animations ect, are done by the game's developement team. I agree that it would be nice to have the animations or even to be able to stop the animation mid way, but that part is really out of NP's hands.
Plus the ability to stop the animation mid point would really hit the games performance, as the game would have to interogate the TIR positioning data 2 or 3 frames a head all the time and implement those changes. The only other way which might even be as bad is to have a library of every part move and to use the appropriate one.
As much as I would like to see that level of detail, the amount of processing or storage and movement of data, would with present or near present hardware be a bit much for it to kope with and for a really good game to be present as well.
Plus the ability to stop the animation mid point would really hit the games performance, as the game would have to interogate the TIR positioning data 2 or 3 frames a head all the time and implement those changes. The only other way which might even be as bad is to have a library of every part move and to use the appropriate one.
As much as I would like to see that level of detail, the amount of processing or storage and movement of data, would with present or near present hardware be a bit much for it to kope with and for a really good game to be present as well.