Evening all. New user here, I don't actually have a TrackIR yet; I was emailing NaturalPoint with my questions last year (thanks Rick Odom!) in preparation for a horribly expensive upgrade in November - which never happened, so now I'm gearing up for an even more expensive upgrade hopefully in the next few weeks. And I'm glad I stalled, because now the TrackIR 4 exists
I've got a couple of unrelated questions to ask here, so maybe this can serve as an ongoing suggestions thread, if it... goes on :/
So, first thing: like everyone else here, I would be giddy with joy to see some of my favourite FPS or first-person RPG games supported by TrackIR. But I know this hasn't happened yet, and that I can get some results with the TIR2Joy utility. Now, I know the current version supports all 6DOF, but I'm having trouble finding comprehensive information about this. So, first question:
Can a game with no Enhanced-Mode support (ie, a typical mouselook game) make use of all 6DOF via this utility? So, say I'm playing Thief: can I set things up so I can look around (as with the mouse), lean side-to-side by moving my head side-to-side, and zoom my metal eye in and out by moving my head forward and back? Please say yes
OK, next thing: would it be useful to have a sticky in this forum for a non-racing/flight game support wishlist - say, periodically update the top post to represent a 'master list' of requested games? Looking around the place, I can see lots of comments voicing support for games dotted about in various threads, but - while I'm sure the Naturalpoint guys are keeping track - these may go unnoticed by other users and we may not be getting a realistic measure of demand. If we have it all in one place, it's easy for everyone to see what's wanted and everyone knows where to go to voice their support. I bet someone's going to tell me now that this already exists...
Anyway, I seriously hope Naturalpoint can get some native support into more mainstream games, not least because I would love to use it in something like System Shock, SWAT, Op Flashpt. etc. but also because those games have a much bigger audience and would (presumably) be a much more visible showcase. And doesn't the coming of Nintendo's Revolution put a bit of time pressure on this? I mean, its controllers have a similar purpose and if it's successful no doubt other compaines will want to get in on the act for PC gamers - I imagine it would be a lot more comfortable for Naturalpoint to corner this market before it becomes crowded.
Oh - I almost forgot. My pick for most-wanted 6DOF* Enhanced-mode support: Dark Messiah, the new Might&Magic spinoff by the makers of Arx Fatalis, with some close involvement from Valve and various ex-Looking Glass folks - judging by preview information, it's shaping up to be a superb game. Go to the Media section and download the Gameplay Trailer - it looks like it's going to be great fun, but just imagine those swordfights with TrackIR support!
* ok, maybe 6 would be overkill
Right... end of waffle.
[ January 24, 2006, 10:00 PM: Message edited by: piln ]
The Everything Thread
Re: The Everything Thread
OK, a little browing tells me that mouse mode no longer exists, is that right?
If someone could just give me run-through of what TIR2Joy does and how I can use it, I'd be grateful, as my purchase of a TIR is kind of relying on this.
As I understand it, TIR2Joy will allow me to use a TIR with VE as a 6-axis joystick in any game, or rather as a controller that shows up in Windows like any other. Is that right, or am I way off?
If someone could just give me run-through of what TIR2Joy does and how I can use it, I'd be grateful, as my purchase of a TIR is kind of relying on this.
As I understand it, TIR2Joy will allow me to use a TIR with VE as a 6-axis joystick in any game, or rather as a controller that shows up in Windows like any other. Is that right, or am I way off?
Re: The Everything Thread
Hello Piln,
I'll address your questions here:
- Our mouse emulator can not force 6dof controls in a game. It just lets TrackIR take over normal mouse controls (and your normal mouse can only move in 2 directions).
BUT, since TrackIR IS still capturing your head motion in 6DOF, it can be smarter about understanding the difference between leaning left and rotating left (for example). The emulator app lets you choose which of TrackIR's 6 captured axes will be used for the 2 axes of mouse movement.
- There have been different lists of requested and suggested games in different threads in these forums (and others maintained by employees here).
I'll create a sticky thread here just for this though, as you suggest. I think you're very right to suggest a central place for anyone to keep track.
- I expect the upcoming Nintendo Revolution will help us greatly, as it will also be educating the world on why moving naturally in 3D changes everything. Since Revolution uses a wand system (with additional button inputs and add-on connections), it is ultimately a different product. But again, I think we would welcome any competition in the motion tracking field, as it will ultimately help establish the field (and outperforming the TrackIR's tight system is pretty much impossible).
- I hadn't heard of Dark Messiah before, thanks for mentioning it. It does look very cool! I strongly agree that TrackIR could open up the FPS genre for better sword play, and have discussed this a bit in the IGDA forums. It's been something of a catch 22 so far, as nobody's had a good way to separate sword control (mouse) from view control (TrackIR) before, and people are used to having their eyeballs locked to their weapon so they can twitch fire all the time. We will try to get support in this game if at all possible.
- While mouse mode is no longer an option inside the software, there is an official TrackIR "mouse emulator" application that installs when you install TrackIR software. It lets you use TrackIR as a 2DOF mouse inside any game (but only in games).
- The third party applications TIR2joy and ppjoy turn TrackIR into a standard joystick (not 6dof).
[ February 20, 2006, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: NaturalPoint-Warren ]
I'll address your questions here:
- Our mouse emulator can not force 6dof controls in a game. It just lets TrackIR take over normal mouse controls (and your normal mouse can only move in 2 directions).
BUT, since TrackIR IS still capturing your head motion in 6DOF, it can be smarter about understanding the difference between leaning left and rotating left (for example). The emulator app lets you choose which of TrackIR's 6 captured axes will be used for the 2 axes of mouse movement.
- There have been different lists of requested and suggested games in different threads in these forums (and others maintained by employees here).
I'll create a sticky thread here just for this though, as you suggest. I think you're very right to suggest a central place for anyone to keep track.
- I expect the upcoming Nintendo Revolution will help us greatly, as it will also be educating the world on why moving naturally in 3D changes everything. Since Revolution uses a wand system (with additional button inputs and add-on connections), it is ultimately a different product. But again, I think we would welcome any competition in the motion tracking field, as it will ultimately help establish the field (and outperforming the TrackIR's tight system is pretty much impossible).
- I hadn't heard of Dark Messiah before, thanks for mentioning it. It does look very cool! I strongly agree that TrackIR could open up the FPS genre for better sword play, and have discussed this a bit in the IGDA forums. It's been something of a catch 22 so far, as nobody's had a good way to separate sword control (mouse) from view control (TrackIR) before, and people are used to having their eyeballs locked to their weapon so they can twitch fire all the time. We will try to get support in this game if at all possible.
- While mouse mode is no longer an option inside the software, there is an official TrackIR "mouse emulator" application that installs when you install TrackIR software. It lets you use TrackIR as a 2DOF mouse inside any game (but only in games).
- The third party applications TIR2joy and ppjoy turn TrackIR into a standard joystick (not 6dof).
[ February 20, 2006, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: NaturalPoint-Warren ]
Re: The Everything Thread
Thanks a lot Warren. I appreciate the reply, although I've been away from the forum for quite a while (my PC upgrade just keeps getting put off :/ )
Interesting stuff with the Revolution on the way. I hope it's a big success, not only because I like the stance Nintendo has been taking lately, but also because it's bound to bring interest from elsewhere, as you say. I can't wait to see what happens. TrackIR for Xbox 360?
I think I've just about figured out what I'll be able to do with TrackIR... I'll be grabbing one when I upgrade, which will hopefully be the end of this month (but it's not the first time I've said that!)
One thing I'd like to suggest is expanding your mouse emulation app into a more useful mouse, joystick and keystroke emulator that makes use of all the TrackIR's axes. I mean, an awful lot of FPSs took the lead of games like System Shock and Thief and now feature side-to-side leaning - it would be nice if I could use the mouse emultion to look around, and lean my head side-to-side to send the relevent joystick/keyboard commands to the game for leaning - ditto for zooming (say, leaning forward a certain distance could emulate a rightmouse-hold in Op Flash, released when I stop leaning forward; or for Thief 2/3, lean forward to zoom in, backward to zoom out). If you allow the user to define mouse/joy/key commands for each axis, it would really open up the functionality of the TrackIR in games with no native support, and would help demonstrate how effective it could be in FPS and RPG-type games - well, any type of game really - with freedom to customise, gamers will always surprise you with some imaginative uses. Would such an app be something you'd consider? Do you think it could possibly be an update in the future?
Anyway, thanks also for opening the game requests sticky, I hope it will prove useful.
Interesting stuff with the Revolution on the way. I hope it's a big success, not only because I like the stance Nintendo has been taking lately, but also because it's bound to bring interest from elsewhere, as you say. I can't wait to see what happens. TrackIR for Xbox 360?
I think I've just about figured out what I'll be able to do with TrackIR... I'll be grabbing one when I upgrade, which will hopefully be the end of this month (but it's not the first time I've said that!)
One thing I'd like to suggest is expanding your mouse emulation app into a more useful mouse, joystick and keystroke emulator that makes use of all the TrackIR's axes. I mean, an awful lot of FPSs took the lead of games like System Shock and Thief and now feature side-to-side leaning - it would be nice if I could use the mouse emultion to look around, and lean my head side-to-side to send the relevent joystick/keyboard commands to the game for leaning - ditto for zooming (say, leaning forward a certain distance could emulate a rightmouse-hold in Op Flash, released when I stop leaning forward; or for Thief 2/3, lean forward to zoom in, backward to zoom out). If you allow the user to define mouse/joy/key commands for each axis, it would really open up the functionality of the TrackIR in games with no native support, and would help demonstrate how effective it could be in FPS and RPG-type games - well, any type of game really - with freedom to customise, gamers will always surprise you with some imaginative uses. Would such an app be something you'd consider? Do you think it could possibly be an update in the future?
Anyway, thanks also for opening the game requests sticky, I hope it will prove useful.
Re: The Everything Thread
Anything is possible, but there are no plans to combine the 3 emulators in the near future.
It'd be cool if TrackIR could do more in old games, but we feel it'd be cooler if it did more in brand new games. So that's where our programmers are focused.
That said, I must admit I'm very excited by the idea of a 3d version of the trackMapper's keyboard emulation, and the possibilities of using multiple emulators at the same time, and will keep bringing this up with our programmers as much as possible.
[ March 15, 2006, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: NaturalPoint-Warren ]
It'd be cool if TrackIR could do more in old games, but we feel it'd be cooler if it did more in brand new games. So that's where our programmers are focused.
That said, I must admit I'm very excited by the idea of a 3d version of the trackMapper's keyboard emulation, and the possibilities of using multiple emulators at the same time, and will keep bringing this up with our programmers as much as possible.
[ March 15, 2006, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: NaturalPoint-Warren ]